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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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buster said:
Freeze assets is the way to go , the length of the freezing of them is the trump card.
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Agree with this. If we take everything from the oligarchs then there's less reason for them to turn on putin. In a "lesser of two evils" approach I'd say we let them keep their ill gotten gains but only when putin is gone and the threat has subsided. They'll have seen how this has gone, once putin is removed I doubt Russia will be invading anyone again for a long time, and oligarchs with a lot to lose certainly won't push for it. Not ideal but we almost need to work with them (or with the ones we can) imo
 

sonson said:
This war is an extension of a particular type of Russian outlook on the world and Russia's place with it that is several hundred years old. Even though Putin is old and irrational, his policies are informed by an old tradition and explain much of what is going on.

This is the case with China but to a far greater degree. With the exception of the past 300 years or so China has been the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world for basically as long as it has existed. It was wealthier, more sophisticated, populous and powerful than the Roman Empire at its height in the Antiquity era. It had crossbows and gunpowder 1000 years before Europeans did. It has cocieved of itself as a single political entity for about 4000 years.

There is a very compelling and well researched theory that both World Wars occured when they did because China was at its weakest point in history and unable to maintain the global balance It has done for millenia. It sees its purpose as being fulcrum to the world, its centre around which things evolve. Harmony and balance and maintenance are key in a way westerners simply can't understand because pretty much all those things we consider expedient. Whereas to the Chinese Political order they have guaranteed its wealth and longevity for far longer than any other civilisation in history. So they're deadly serious about it.

It is very much its own thing. It's vision of superiority is not expansionist in the way Western Powers are. If it were China would have comfortably run over pretty much anyone it liked for most of the history of civilization.

It's as foolish to project Western values onto them as it was to believe societies in the middle east want to be secular and democratic. China obviously has political ambitions as does any super power but their motives are not informed by remedial expansionism.

The US on the other hand is a civilisation born out of war and which has basically waged war against someone for its entire existence and seems to basically require it to justify its existence. Alternatively, if it dosent start wars, it agressivley fronts up to other nations it believes are encroaching on its interests, and conveniently Americas interests are wherever they pervueve them to be. Outside of Russia, they ate far my biggest concern to world peace, and us as their lap dogs if our government continues to be as supine as it has this century.
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very interesting read, while I agree with some parts I dont think its as simple as you suggest, for example you miss out the whole part of history with regards the Mongol invasions and the many civil wars that torn the country apart in different eras, it like many other empires of the world has had peaks and dips. To be fair "china as we know it" has been a collection of waring states many times in its 5000 year history, in fact China has split into independent states more than once, it could be compared how Europe has changed over the years. With new countries coming and going with new empires and such, much like china changed between each dynasty.

But remember Modern china is very much removed from its own history in many ways the peoples revolution made sure of that.

I also read about the theory that china being weak played a part in two world wars, its an interesting theory, but the same can be seen throughout history, when an empire fails it leaves a vacuum and a power struggle tends to follow to fill the void.

First Sino-Japanese War was the final nail in the coffin of the emperors of china , it had been in decline for some time in the 100 years before, conceding land to western powers, at the same time Japan had its sights on Empire and the west was all looking to expand empires and an arms race began. We all know how that turned out.

Modern China has been crapped on more than once in modern times by the western powers, starting with WW1, then as you know its common knowledge how things progressed leading to revolution.

The fear of communism by the USA has been a major problem the last 100 years and is still a major issue today, I feel we should be able to work with China, its in our interests to do so, China wants to trade, but there's so much mistrust on both sides, years of being bitten by the west doesn't help and the west not understanding China also causes problems, add to the fact the USA wanted to fight communism anywhere in the world, no wonder there's zero trust.

Not my strongest topic the history of China, but from year dot thy have been the worlds traders, exporting more than just goods, we should try and forge closer ties with them and learn to trust each other, if we ever crack that and become friends, the world would be a safer place.
 
Dadsarmy73 said:
If any Russian military aircraft actually enter our airspace, we should shoot it down. Simple as that, it’s totally unacceptable behaviour. If Putin then says our actions are hostile, sod him, he would need to explain why he thought it was acceptable for them to be there in the first place

As every minute goes by my hatred of Putin rises exponentially
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If Putin really does want nuclear war then we'll get it anyway.

Now is not the time for our arses to go.
 
Lambchops said:
They've ran out of juice aswell - being reported in the news here. These are basically kids being sent out to be butchered
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6 days of sat in essentially a traffic jam. Nowhere to piss, nowhere to shit, nowhere to shower, no idea what the fuck is going on, you’re told you’re on exercise, your mobile phone has been taken off you so you have no idea what’s going on. They’ll obviously click that shit is getting awry. Whem they set off it will have been class. They’ll now be looking up wondering when drones are going to vaporise them.
 
Peegee said:
Anyone know why India, Pakistan. Sri Lanka and South Africa all abstained for the vote to condemn Russia?

All cricketing nations so figured they’d side with Ukraine and democracy.
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Modi and Khan are playing both sides, Ceylon doesn't take a collective shit without India's permission, surprised at South Africa's response though
Hopefully they don't get a penny in foreign aid in future. Putie and his oligarchs can bail them out
 
OOOSH YEAH said:
6 days of sat in essentially a traffic jam. Nowhere to piss, nowhere to shit, nowhere to shower, no idea what the fuck is going on, you’re told you’re on exercise, your mobile phone has been taken off you so you have no idea what’s going on. They’ll obviously click that shit is getting awry. Whem they set off it will have been class. They’ll now be looking up wondering when drones are going to vaporise them.
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The Ukrainians have said any captured russian soldiers can ring their mam's to pick them up 😂 I'll find the link
 
I like this guy. He has a PhD in War Studies and in particular Russian capabilities.

This gives an idea of the magnitude of Putins task. He has so far taken 2-5% of the country. Basically a moon shape around the outside in the East. And only one major city out of over 20. That he has still got to prove they can hold. The local governor surrended to the Russians but doesn’t mean the million plus people living there will or that the Ukrainian forces will accept that.

A country 2.5 times the size of the UK and he needs to effectively control all of it and the big cities that will need more intensive numbers.

If he can’t do that seems like it will be a Turkey shoot for the Ukrainian insurgents and remaining armed forces if the Russians spread themselves too thin.

Unless he can get the people to accept a new government and get the Ukrainian security forces (Including police and armed forces to shift loyalty to them) then he is going to need huge huge numbers to control it

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Lambchops said:
The Ukrainians have said any captured russian soldiers can ring their mam's to pick them up 😂 I'll find the link
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Good. it’s the most ridiculous war ive ever seen. I have loads of mates who live in Glasgow. Imagine them trying to drive a tank down my street. I’d end up offering them a can. That’s why I’m convinced this daft **** will lose. The lads who are supposed to kill are not into it. Putin is a dinosaur
 
OOOSH YEAH said:
Good. it’s the most ridiculous war ive ever seen. I have loads of mates who live in Glasgow. Imagine them trying to drive a tank down my street. I’d end up offering them a can. That’s why I’m convinced this daft **** will lose. The lads who are supposed to kill are not into it. Putin is a dinosaur
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It's crackers man, unless he goes nuclear he loses, if he does that he loses- all about being a name
 
Fcomp said:
First, it isn't a 40 mile convoy.
The company responsible for the satellite pictures have made this clear.
There is 40 miles of road and there are groups of vehicles along the road.
It's not a 40 mile column of vehicles.

The likely explanation for the convoys not moving and not being attacked is that the first wave of the Russian invasion has cleared out all the land based resistance and established air superiority over the that area.
But the last 20 miles to Kiev have not been secured yet so they dare not advance further until they secure the rest of the approach or they'll be blown to bits.
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Apparently it's very muddy so the wheeled vehicles have to stay on road .

Fuel shortages & breakdowns an issue
And so apparently is morale.

Soldiers haven't got food and are having to loot it + many don't agree / understand why they're being asked to do what they're doing .

lets hope they turn the tanks around and go back to take out Putin .

Even once they get to the city - I've heard talk that they'll mount a siege ..The Ukranians are probably well stocked and could last month's.......More likely the Russians starve to death sitting outside looking in

If they try to Battle it out street by street then the Ukranians will pick them off .

I'm actually starting to think Ukraine can win this war

Problem is Putin will then order them to flatten the cities to save his face - If that happens I think we need NATO to demsbd corridors agreed to remove folk .
And we need 100% ban on all Russian oil and gas - whatever that costs us
 
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