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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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chrismisterx said:
I know we have to be careful, as its hard to know what's the truth or not with regards the invading Army, but if its as bad as it seems, poorly trained, poorly supplied, no real plan, is this a defining moment?

I think we have a lot more to worry about with China then Russia moving forward, I cant see Russia using nukes, more chance for Putin to be removed, it would be wonderful if Putin's attempts to recreate a USSR ended up with a closer Europe and a finished Russia as a creditable threat.

If Putin is removed and there's a true change in the thinking in Russia, we have to extend the olive branch and bring them into the fold, break the barriers of them and US, it will make for a much safer world.

I wonder how china is viewing all this and what's going through there minds now?

Anyway, each day Ukraine holds out is another nail in Putin's coffin, if reports we are seeing is true.
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This war is an extension of a particular type of Russian outlook on the world and Russia's place with it that is several hundred years old. Even though Putin is old and irrational, his policies are informed by an old tradition and explain much of what is going on.

This is the case with China but to a far greater degree. With the exception of the past 300 years or so China has been the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world for basically as long as it has existed. It was wealthier, more sophisticated, populous and powerful than the Roman Empire at its height in the Antiquity era. It had crossbows and gunpowder 1000 years before Europeans did. It has cocieved of itself as a single political entity for about 4000 years.

There is a very compelling and well researched theory that both World Wars occured when they did because China was at its weakest point in history and unable to maintain the global balance It has done for millenia. It sees its purpose as being fulcrum to the world, its centre around which things evolve. Harmony and balance and maintenance are key in a way westerners simply can't understand because pretty much all those things we consider expedient. Whereas to the Chinese Political order they have guaranteed its wealth and longevity for far longer than any other civilisation in history. So they're deadly serious about it.

It is very much its own thing. It's vision of superiority is not expansionist in the way Western Powers are. If it were China would have comfortably run over pretty much anyone it liked for most of the history of civilization.

It's as foolish to project Western values onto them as it was to believe societies in the middle east want to be secular and democratic. China obviously has political ambitions as does any super power but their motives are not informed by remedial expansionism.

The US on the other hand is a civilisation born out of war and which has basically waged war against someone for its entire existence and seems to basically require it to justify its existence. Alternatively, if it dosent start wars, it agressivley fronts up to other nations it believes are encroaching on its interests, and conveniently Americas interests are wherever they pervueve them to be. Outside of Russia, they ate far my biggest concern to world peace, and us as their lap dogs if our government continues to be as supine as it has this century.
 
Osklen said:
And you are calling Harry hard work! What do you want to know about him? I think he’s very private though there are biographies about him.

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I’ve no doubt he was part of the gravy train over there. I’ve watched Adam Curtis documentaries about Russia and I’m familiar with the disparity between the normal people in Russia and the select few. I’ll not gan on about it as I’m fairly ignorant about the whole thing and I’ll leave it to the likes of yourself and Harry who have read into it more than me. Going off what I know of him he doesn’t seem so bad and his actions over this invasion seem to be pretty decent. Fair enough he will be saving his own skin but in this instance it seems to be of benefit to Ukraine.
 
West_Winger said:
How does he plan on seizing the Tory party?
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Very good.
Astra said:
Eventually it will come down to call his bluff or give up and learn to speak Russian. The choice will be ours. Perhaps we should also consider why countries like Poland, Latvia, Hungary etc. aren’t keen to return to living under Russian rule and why Ukrainians are fighting so hard and enduring so much rather than just saying “okay we’ll give you whatever you want”? None of those countries who know what it’s like seem keen to repeat the experience.
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A lot of people in those countries will have long memories.
 
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Romania are in NATO. Wouldn’t put it past Russia, he seems hellbent on an escalation and the helicopter going down is a very big coincidence

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OOOSH YEAH said:
I’ve no doubt he was part of the gravy train over there. I’ve watched Adam Curtis documentaries about Russia and I’m familiar with the disparity between the normal people in Russia and the select few. I’ll not gan on about it as I’m fairly ignorant about the whole thing and I’ll leave it to the likes of yourself and Harry who have read into it more than me. Going off what I know of him he doesn’t seem so bad and his actions over this invasion seem to be pretty decent. Fair enough he will be saving his own skin but in this instance it seems to be of benefit to Ukraine.
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Please don’t think I’m well versed in any of this as I don’t profess to be, I was just taking the piss.

I agree on face value what he has offered seems like a genuine and kind gesture.
 
coyneeee said:
Georgia has applied for EU membership. Risky business considering they've already been pummelled and territory annexed for Western ties.

Government doesn't want to piss Russia off but were under severe pressure by the public - Literally Ukraine-lite.
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America supported Georgia which started off all this. Weren’t Putin and Bush pretty friendly before Bush came out and supported Georgia’s pro NATO stance?
 
MonkeyLove said:
Romania are in NATO. Wouldn’t put it past Russia, he seems hellbent on an escalation and the helicopter going down is a very big coincidence

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This is very worrying, a potentially massive escalation. Let's hope the west resorts to diplomacy and don't get trigger happy if the worst is confirmed.
 
Suomifinland said:
Ok

Even that was naughty. It was a violation of sovereign air space, not just the buffer zone that RAF normally intercept in. Within rights to shoot them down.

And it was 4x attack planes...
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Yet the Russians were happy to destroy a Korean passenger plane that violated their territorial space in 1983.

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If they enter our airspace down they should go.
 
Harry Angstrom said:
The fact that he called it war is the point I thought was significant. I don’t think he should get a penny from the sale.
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He's either playing both sides, or he's split from Putin. If the latter that is massive.

In addition, he's said he's not asking for loans to be repaid.
 
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