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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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In fairness to Putin the West did promise Russia no eastward NATO expansion when they were negotiating over German re-unification and we've completely gone back on that promise, this has been confirmed by Germany's Foreign Ministry - essentially he doesn't want potential adversaries' missiles on his doorstep and frankly I don't blame him. To me this has echoes of Cuba:

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pillars of hercules said:
What a lot of people don’t seem to consider is that much of the Ukraine is populated with Russian speakers. When you walk around Kiev it isn't Ukrainian you here people speak. Russia has in interest in that part of the world and we should acknowledge that in any talks.
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They speak English in Dublin, New York, Melbourne and Johannesburg.
 
Hammertime4 said:
In fairness to Putin the West did promise Russia no eastward NATO expansion when they were negotiating over German re-unification and we've completely gone back on that promise, this has been confirmed by Germany's Foreign Ministry - essentially he doesn't want potential adversaries' missiles on his doorstep and frankly I don't blame him. To me this has echoes of Cuba:

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Rattle the bears cage and the bear will roar
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’m sure this is absolute bollocks mind
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Are you really sure I'm talking bollocks?

I've been to the Ukraine, my godson is half Ukrainian and can't speak a word of it, but can speak Russian fluently. In a match between Ukraine and Russia he would support Ukraine.

I don't think you know the first thing about the place or the demographics.
citybythesea said:
The only elections they’re not allowed to interfere in is their own!!!!
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Like I said that type of interference will have no effect over there.
Salem-Hillbilly said:
They speak English in Dublin, New York, Melbourne and Johannesburg.
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Because they don’t have an indigenous population?

So what's your argument?
 
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Gelan said:
I don't know one Welsh person that wants their child to learm Welsh...and I know quite a few goats.
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I worked in Somerset for a year and worked with an absolute ton of Welsh lads, who all spoke welsh to each other. I knew maybe a handful who would choose to speak English, that only understood a little welsh. I’m sure it’s a legal requirement for children to be taught Welsh in school. Can only see the language continuing its revival.
 
Sinbad Skullhead said:
Its like a meeting of the naive youth this thread all jerking each other off to the rhythm of their seditious banjos.
All that wasted free speech spouting absolute cod shit. Forever knowing that theyre riding this little Putin wave destined to jump off and plead ignorance about past comments and how horrible it is that the Ukrainians are being blown to pieces.
Absolute space cadets.
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So what's your opinion?
 
pillars of hercules said:
Are you really sure I'm talking bollocks?

I've been to the Ukraine, my godson is half Ukrainian and can't speak a word of it, but can speak Russian fluently. In a match between Ukraine and Russia he would support Ukraine.

I don't think you know the first thing about the place or the demographics.

Like I said that type of interference will have no effect over there.

Because they don’t have an indigenous population?

So what's your argument?
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There would have to be a considerable change in demographics since the 2001 census for the vast majority to be Russian speakers. The below table is the language people class as their native language.

Ukraina
Total48 240 902
Ukrainian32 577 468
Russian14 273 670
Belarusian56 249
Bulgarian134 396
Armenian51 847
Gagauz23 765
Crimean Tatar231 382
Moldavian185 032
German4 206
Polish19 195
Romani22 603
Romanian142 671
Slovak2 768
Hungarian161 618
Karaim96
Hebrew3 307
Greek6 029
other language143 163
did not indicated201 437
 
SR7 said:
I worked in Somerset for a year and worked with an absolute ton of Welsh lads, who all spoke welsh to each other. I knew maybe a handful who would choose to speak English, that only understood a little welsh. I’m sure it’s a legal requirement for children to be taught Welsh in school. Can only see the language continuing its revival.
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Welsh will never be anything more than a novelty in the south. Its been a minority language there for many hundreds of years
Baloo said:
There would have to be a considerable change in demographics since the 2001 census for the vast majority to be Russian speakers. The below table is the language people class as their native language.

Ukraina
Total48 240 902
Ukrainian32 577 468
Russian14 273 670
Belarusian56 249
Bulgarian134 396
Armenian51 847
Gagauz23 765
Crimean Tatar231 382
Moldavian185 032
German4 206
Polish19 195
Romani22 603
Romanian142 671
Slovak2 768
Hungarian161 618
Karaim96
Hebrew3 307
Greek6 029
other language143 163
did not indicated201 437
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I'm not saying that most people don't consider themselves to be ethnically Ukrainian. Read my post about my godson. I'm saying the choice of language and ethnic identity are 2 very different things (like in Wales). The Russian speakers in the Donbas region like the Crimea have always considered themselves Russian and like the Albanians in Kosavo deserve self determination. We supported that. What's the difference here?
Baloo said:
There would have to be a considerable change in demographics since the 2001 census for the vast majority to be Russian speakers. The below table is the language people class as their native language.

Ukraina
Total48 240 902
Ukrainian32 577 468
Russian14 273 670
Belarusian56 249
Bulgarian134 396
Armenian51 847
Gagauz23 765
Crimean Tatar231 382
Moldavian185 032
German4 206
Polish19 195
Romani22 603
Romanian142 671
Slovak2 768
Hungarian161 618
Karaim96
Hebrew3 307
Greek6 029
other language143 163
did not indicated201 437
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My point about the language is that most people in the Ukraine can speak Russian fluently to the point that if they go to a supermarket they would speak Russian by choice. That's not saying they don't go home and speak Ukrainian to their family.
 
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pillars of hercules said:
Welsh will never be anything more than a novelty in the south. Its been a minority language there for many hundreds of years

I'm not saying that most people don't consider themselves to be ethnically Ukrainian. Read my post about my godson. I'm saying the choice of language and ethnic identity are 2 very different things (like in Wales). The Russian speakers in the Donbas region like the Crimea have always considered themselves Russian and like the Albanians in Kosavo deserve self determination. We supported that. What's the difference here?

My point about the language is that most people in the Ukraine can speak Russian fluently to the point that if they go to a supermarket they would speak Russian by choice. That's not saying they don't go home and speak Ukrainian to their family.
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A legitimate and legal referendum should have taken place in Donbas when it was still possible to have been fair and free. Federalisation and decentralisation would have likely appeased the region. Up until a couple of years ago this would have probably still been an acceptable solution. This is a couple of years old now, but makes for interesting reading.


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Not related to any post, but this thread is flagging up on my browser as “not secure”. Anyone else having this issue? Only seems to be this thread.
 
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Baloo said:
A legitimate and legal referendum should have taken place in Donbas when it was still possible to have been fair and free. Federalisation and decentralisation would have likely appeased the region. Up until a couple of years ago this would have probably still been an acceptable solution. This is a couple of years old now, but makes for interesting reading.


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Yeah that's about right. My point is the situation is more complex that people imagine. People can declare themselves as being Ukrainian first language speakers on a census then go home and speak Russian. The government are embarking on a process of Ukrainianisation that is alienating a lot of people that would otherwise be proud Ukrainians.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
In the same way as you are not complicit, "Newcastle fans" (in your previous post) are not complicit in the actions of the Saudi regime in Yemen. We just want to see our team do well and I despise the actions of the Saudis as much as anyone.
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What a load of shite, campaign for them to buy you in the thousands, give the new owners a standing ovation at the first game, become online soldiers and apologists for the entire Saudi state, get flags pledging allegiance to Allah at the ground.

If you are not complicit then what on earth are you? Indifferent at best but absolutely happy to sell your soul at worst. And then you'll boo a player for kicking his cats, morals only matter to you when it costs you nothing.
 
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