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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Meathead said:
Given Russia has previous for meddling in overseas elections, what could possibly go wrong?
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I get your point but the attitudes of the local population will already be polarised. If the election is monitored and unbiased it won't make any difference if Russia gets up to dirty tricks.
citybythesea said:
Not sure they believe in fair elections tbh

They ain’t got a good track record
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The Russians wouldn't be organising it.
citybythesea said:
Not sure they believe in fair elections tbh

They ain’t got a good track record
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Tbf the one they held in the Crimea accurately represented the feelings of the local population.
 
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pillars of hercules said:
I get your point but the attitudes of the local population will already be polarised. If the election is monitored and unbiased it won't make any difference if Russia gets up to dirty tricks.

The Russians wouldn't be organising it.
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No just funding & influencing it.

Cough brexit cough.

Farage would fly into Donetsk for a pint man.
 
Its like a meeting of the naive youth this thread all jerking each other off to the rhythm of their seditious banjos.
All that wasted free speech spouting absolute cod shit. Forever knowing that theyre riding this little Putin wave destined to jump off and plead ignorance about past comments and how horrible it is that the Ukrainians are being blown to pieces.
Absolute space cadets.
 
Surely it’s getting to the point where the west have to stop crawling to Putin and make a stand, “ if you this, we will do this” attitude.
Putin is in his element all leaders knocking on his door.
Then it’s over to you Putin, and start calling it Putins war for his people to know who is to blame for the deaths.
 
pillars of hercules said:
I get your point but the attitudes of the local population will already be polarised. If the election is monitored and unbiased it won't make any difference if Russia gets up to dirty tricks.

The Russians wouldn't be organising it.

Tbf the one they held in the Crimea accurately represented the feelings of the local population.
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The only elections they’re not allowed to interfere in is their own!!!!
 
pillars of hercules said:
The best think to do is hold a referendum in the east and both agree to abide by the desicion. The NATO issue should be put on the back burner until that is sorted.
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Points 4, 11 and 12 are what were agreed on elections. Point 11 had been stuck in draft form since 2015 until Zelensky buried it 3 months after being elected.

I've added a link to an explainer about Ukraine's national and local political organisation and to the actual draft law which you'll see was withdrawn in August 2019.

The Minsk II agreement, summarised
1. Immediate, full bilateral ceasefire as of 15 February 00:00.
2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides, to be completed within 14 days.
3. Effective monitoring regime for the ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons by the OSCE.
4. Launch of dialogue on modalities of local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation.
5. Pardon and amnesty of figures involved in the conflict.
6. Release of all hostages and other illegally detained people, based on the 'all for all' principle.
7. Safe delivery of humanitarian aid to those in need, based on an international mechanism.
8. Restoration of full social and economic links with affected areas.
9. Full Ukrainian control over its border with Russia throughout the conflict zone.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory.
11. Constitutional reform in Ukraine with decentralisation as a key element; a new constitution by the end of 2015.
12. Local elections in Donetsk and Luhansk regions to be held according to OSCE standards.
13. Intensifying of the work of the Trilateral Contact Group

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Viper said:
In 1999, a series of mysterious overnight explosions damaged or destroyed four apartment buildings in Moscow, Buynaksk, and Volgodonsk. More than 300 people were killed - many as they slept peacefully with their families.
The atrocities were blamed on religious extremists operating from the breakaway republic of Chechnya.
Russia's new Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, said the Chechens responsible for the bombings should be squashed like vermin.
Remember that Putin was brand new. He'd only just been appointed the month before by President Boris Yeltsin, by then wildly unpopular after years of chaotic reforms and runaway corruption. Putin - Yeltsin's fifth prime minister in 18 months - was unpopular too.
The bombings - and Putin's tough-guy response - changed his political fortunes. Russian forces snuffed out the Chechen republic. Yeltsin surprised the world by resigning, handing Putin the presidency. Putin rode his newfound popularity to re-election a few months later.
This might have been the story of a fortuitous national emergency bailing out an unpopular leader - had it not been for what happened on the night of Sept. 22 in the Russian city of Ryazan.
The entire country was on edge, with apartment dwellers terrified their block of flats could be the next to blown to bits. Patrols are set up, residents are extra alert.
It's in that context that a couple of residents of an apartment building in Ryazan spot a suspicious vehicle loitering outside. They alert the authorities, who don't come in time to intercept the vehicle but do inspect the basement. They discover a massive bomb.
Chillingly, the device was set to go off at 5:30am - just like the bombs that slaughtered hundreds in Moscow and elsewhere. The Ryazan explosives shared the same chemical signature as the other bombs too. It seemed clear, initially, that this was part of the same grim campaign.
Authorities reacted as if another terror attack had been narrowly averted. Russian Interior Minister Vladimir Rushailo said so, as did the head of the local FSB, Alexander Sergeev, who went on television to congratulate the residents on being spared.
But the manhunt for the suspicious vehicle - a white Lada - and its occupants soon yielded a bewildering surprise: those who planted the bomb weren’t Chechens. They were FSB operatives.
Now caught in an awkward situation, the FSB belatedly announced that the incident had been a training exercise all along. The bomb? Bags of sugar. The sensor that picked up traces of explosives? Faulty.
The residents of the Ryazan apartment building were confused and frightened. What kind of a test involves dumping a getaway car and trying to flee the city?

Some journalists got too close to the truth and were killed.
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Seems that there's going to be some sort of gradual ramp up followed by some Russian action in the name of keeping the peace. Also seems like there's been some sort of northern Ireland thing going on in East Ukraine that needs fixed. The Malaysian airline thing showed that a hot war there isn't new.

TBH in the interests of a quiet life if Ukraine gave up those areas & Russia was happy enough then fuck it.
 
arthursboy said:
Surely it’s getting to the point where the west have to stop crawling to Putin and make a stand, “ if you this, we will do this” attitude.
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For what it's worth I think Putin has made a big mistake

He spent a decade messing with European and US politics in the belief that he could reap some rewards form it in the future; brexit, trump etc.

He is in a mess at home, and now he is over 70 people are starting to think about who might replace him - he needs a show of force to stop that view developing

He thought that the US and Western Europe were weak and disunited after years of Russian interference, but he made a massive miscalculation. He never wanted to invade Ukraine, he just wanted concessions to make him long strong at home

Biden is a weak president but he is hugely experienced and has done a great job at rallying Western leaders against Putin.

Putin doens't want to invade, but he can't back down without a diplomatic win, and right now that isn't on the table

Either this ends in war, or the West throws Putin a rather feeble bone which leaves him a weakened leader

The question is - how small a bone will Putin accept? How long can he last if he backs down? Is it worth a war and sanctions to bolster his fading position, or will more poverty among Russian speed his end?
 
Suomifinland said:
Seems that there's going to be some sort of gradual ramp up followed by some Russian action in the name of keeping the peace. Also seems like there's been some sort of northern Ireland thing going on in East Ukraine that needs fixed. The Malaysian airline thing showed that a hot war there isn't new.

TBH in the interests of a quiet life if Ukraine gave up those areas & Russia was happy enough then fuck it.
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See my post 2 up from yours, Russia is asking for Minsk II to be implemented. France, Germany and Ukraine officials have repeatedly complained about the scaremongering by the US and UK referencing Intel they're not prepared to share.

Here's another Ukraine official trying to tell the world that reports are inaccurate. This follows the defence spokesman on UK tv last week and Zelensky at the Munich conference yesterday.

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r@mside said:
See my post 2 up from yours, Russia is asking for Minsk II to be implemented. France, Germany and Ukraine officials have repeatedly complained about the scaremongering by the US and UK referencing Intel they're not prepared to share.

Here's another Ukraine official trying to tell the world that reports are inaccurate. This follows the defence spokesman on UK tv last week and Zelensky at the Munich conference yesterday.

You must be logged on to see media items
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Yeah really interesting. End game seems to be recognition of Eastern Ukraine but it's not a cheap way to so it. Said in an earlier post that I think a stealth invasion of Belarus has already been done.
Given Western press, what Putin should do is just move border 100m per day & no fucker would care. Few years in job done.
 
Suomifinland said:
Yeah really interesting. End game seems to be recognition of Eastern Ukraine but it's not a cheap way to so it. Said in an earlier post that I think a stealth invasion of Belarus has already been done.
Given Western press, what Putin should do is just move border 100m per day & no fucker would care. Few years in job done.
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:lol: That won't work, they're income model is dependent on having bogeymen to hate on. Let them have Putin, at least he keeps the hate at a distance unlike when they had us turning on our neighbours over Brexit.
 
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