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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Suomifinland said:
Rumours of influx of Russian mercenaries into East Ukraine & Russians have come out today & said they have the right to "retaliate".

I think clear sign of false flag intent here. Kick off something TV worthy & then send in might of Russian forces under "outrageous attack on ethnic Russians".

My bet is a land grab of Donbass down to enough to get Crimea linked. That could be done quickly & then a message sent to Kiev saying if you don't retaliate we'll stop here.
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I assume most people have read Red Storm Rising. Reagan even had Thatcher read it.

All starts with a maskirovka.
 

So I'm guessing putin will do the "due to the overwhelming evidence we recognise east Ukraine as a separate country form Ukraine.... And the residents are asking for our help, so golly we are going to help the defenceless Eastern Ukrainians"
 
r@mside said:
It's worth remembering, they voted overwhelmingly for Yanukovych in 2010. Until the violence exploded into a civil war, protests in the region were against the Maidan coup and some of the instigators but their support for Yanukovych became pointless when Russia invaded Crimea because it took away such a large part of his party's base that it pretty much crumbled to insignificance.
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He won with less than 3% of the vote where he faced claims of vote-rigging claims from coincidentally the Luhansk, Crimea and Donetsk regions where people were double-voting, it's not a coincidence where the only regions he won are now currently in separatist control, more importantly the very first thing he did in office was withdraw the Constitution of Ukraine which was first made in 2004 which involved closer ties to the EU and joining NATO.

And the fact he was impeached with a vote of 328-0 suggests the penny dropped the man was a double-agent.

He sold himself out for Russian protection to try and stop the navigation towards Europe but what Putin simply cannot accept is that it's the people's wishes for a sovereign country to be part of NATO, the country is overwhelmingly in favour of part of the West rather than a ex-USSR state, the only ones that aren't are now the ones who now have Russian passports and are now part of unrecognised republic.

Putin's aim is not to fly the Russian flag in Kyiv, it's just to simply put another yes man in charge to withdraw the constitution again, as evidenced by what's been on the news where the British Government have put sanctions on Ukraine's own MP's who were willing to be the next yes man.

The main problem Putin has is the sheer size of the country which means Kyiv isn't the only major city who is pro-EU, if Kyiv ever fell then Kharkiv would probably end up as the de-facto capital where the Nationalists would base themselves and fight the separatists leading to another Syria which will go on for years without a conclusion.
 
40 minute phone call between Biden and Johnson.
Love to see the transcript, Waffle, Waffle, Er, Er, Repeat..

You must be logged on to see media items
 
gazc24 said:
So I'm guessing putin will do the "due to the overwhelming evidence we recognise east Ukraine as a separate country form Ukraine.... And the residents are asking for our help, so golly we are going to help the defenceless Eastern Ukrainians"
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Putin doesn't want to recognise the separatist areas as a separate country. He wants the Minsk II agreement to be signed by Ukraine. Then the two separatist areas of Luhansk and Donetsk with be given a high level of autonomy but reintegrated back into Ukraine where they will hold a veto over Ukraine ever joining the EU or NATO. Two regions under direct Russian control.

It's a bit like us leaving the EU but Wales and Scotland remaining under EU influence and control while still being members of the UK and having representatives in the UK parliament. Hardly surprising the Ukrainian people are so against it that no politician in the Ukraine dare even support it.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
Putin doesn't want to recognise the separatist areas as a separate country. He wants the Minsk II agreement to be signed by Ukraine. Then the two separatist areas of Luhansk and Donetsk with be given a high level of autonomy but reintegrated back into Ukraine where they will hold a veto over Ukraine ever joining the EU or NATO. Two regions under direct Russian control.

It's a bit like us leaving the EU but Wales and Scotland remaining under EU influence and control while still being members of the UK and having representatives in the UK parliament. Hardly surprising the Ukrainian people are so against it that no politician in the Ukraine dare even support it.
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That makes total sense.
 
If it was Putin in Ukraine’s shoes he would agree to concessions. Ie no NATO membership to buy time and then quietly go about building up his armed forces before moving the goal posts.

Although Russia are strong now they went through a period end of the 90’s and start of the millennium where their military was ageing and declining. Massive investment has got them where they are and now they are emboldened.

Ukraine should offer up the concessions. Starve off an attack for now and quietly agree with Biden an end game. Putin has made a lifetime out of reneging on deals when it suited him. Main aim for Ukraine should be to ward off the immediate threat
Mercia Blackcat said:
If so, then that will be the start of the Second Cold War.
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If Putin goes in it will be a complete breakdown of trust with the West. I’m sure he has picked his words very carefully but he has been denying to Western leaders they are planning to invade even as recently as the weekend. Russia have been making public statements as such. Even with a false flag for attempted justification there will be no way back for the West and Putin if he goes in. So a 2nd cold war would be highly likely. The Baltic and Eastern European states would certainly rush military investment and alliances
 
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coyneeee said:
He won with less than 3% of the vote where he faced claims of vote-rigging claims from coincidentally the Luhansk, Crimea and Donetsk regions where people were double-voting, it's not a coincidence where the only regions he won are now currently in separatist control, more importantly the very first thing he did in office was withdraw the Constitution of Ukraine which was first made in 2004 which involved closer ties to the EU and joining NATO.

And the fact he was impeached with a vote of 328-0 suggests the penny dropped the man was a double-agent.

He sold himself out for Russian protection to try and stop the navigation towards Europe but what Putin simply cannot accept is that it's the people's wishes for a sovereign country to be part of NATO, the country is overwhelmingly in favour of part of the West rather than a ex-USSR state, the only ones that aren't are now the ones who now have Russian passports and are now part of unrecognised republic.

Putin's aim is not to fly the Russian flag in Kyiv, it's just to simply put another yes man in charge to withdraw the constitution again, as evidenced by what's been on the news where the British Government have put sanctions on Ukraine's own MP's who were willing to be the next yes man.

The main problem Putin has is the sheer size of the country which means Kyiv isn't the only major city who is pro-EU, if Kyiv ever fell then Kharkiv would probably end up as the de-facto capital where the Nationalists would base themselves and fight the separatists leading to another Syria which will go on for years without a conclusion.
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Not sure which election you're referring to, not that is has anything to do with my point unless you're trying to say his party didn't have huge support in Donbass?

The bolded sentence is more in line with what I was thinking, I wouldn't mind seeing the polling on it though. There's no certainty that the separatist republics will vote against Kyiv's wishes to align closer to the West if given autonomy within a sovereign Ukraine.

Although it's probably more likely to lean east if history is anything to go by, the region has been at odds with the western part of the country for longer than Yanukovych has been around.
 
MonkeyLove said:
If it was Putin in Ukraine’s shoes he would agree to concessions. Ie no NATO membership to buy time and then quietly go about building up his armed forces before moving the goal posts.
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The problem is joining NATO is part of the Ukrainian Constitution, the goal posts are literally drilled down and there's no chance of digging them back up.

It's like voting in Boris Johnson to get Brexit done, and he turns around and says I'll do it after next election, but on a much larger scale, whoever turns their back on this will get thrown out by the people again. It's pretty much what you're signing up for if you for President of Ukraine whether you like it or not.

Russia's biggest threat right now is Germany, who is considered the powerhouse in Western Europe, but also because Russia's natural resources go through Germany to go into Europe, if Merkel was still about she'd have Putin running months ago, but this Olaf chap seems to be going for the Russian money rather than siding with Europe - He's been on the news alot lately where the French, Yanks, Ukrainins and Brits are all fuming with him for not doing what Merkel would of done.

It also doesn't help his mentor is now the President of Gazprom - Coincidence? I think not.
 
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