Michael Vaughan

[Mackem DJ]

lets be honest, there isn’t a chance Vaughan didnt say this is there. It happened imo, it’s possibly he meant it as ‘banter’, which wont be accepted by the baying masses, hence he has no option but to deny it.

 

[Visiting owl]

lets be honest, there isn’t a chance Vaughan didnt say this is there. It happened imo, it’s possibly he meant it as ‘banter’, which wont be accepted by the baying masses, hence he has no option but to deny it.

That's exactly my thoughts.

 

[scotch]

lets be honest, there isn’t a chance Vaughan didnt say this is there. It happened imo, it’s possibly he meant it as ‘banter’, which wont be accepted by the baying masses, hence he has no option but to deny it.

Honestly, context and tone is everything, back then it's probably an off the cuff remark...nowadays it's a full on racist scandal

 

[mackembhoy]

lets be honest, there isn’t a chance Vaughan didnt say this is there. It happened imo, it’s possibly he meant it as ‘banter’, which wont be accepted by the baying masses, hence he has no option but to deny it.

He's carried on being racist while the tax payer funds him.

He's still funded by the tax payer. So what he has said in the past is very relevant. Mind how he kept his job after the moeen stuff I have no idea.

I've been racist in the banter of singing Sunderland songs as a child/teenager. Maybe even after I became an adult I remember a Ji dong won chant at an away game pissed I will have joined in..

Doesn't make what I or he did right.

 

[HarrogateMackem]

I personally can’t stand Michael Vaughan and i’m glad he’s in for a cancelling (or whatever the cancel culture deniers call it)

We know his social media has a whiff of potential racism about it and we know he is a massive gobshite / oaf. BUT (i’m gonna get pelters here), for the purposes of debate and understanding his likely defence:

To my knowledge this is the only racial comment he’s accused of saying. Is there an acceptable context he may have said those words in (as that is probably what his argunent is going to be based on, lets be honest). Ie If he thought he was pally with them four lads and they’d not take offence. It was almost certainly said in jest despite the fact there is a pretty rancid backdrop of more forthright and blatant / offensive racism at YCCC & other counties.

Is there any context to be offered where this isn’t actually as bad as it seems?

So far, the report hasn't been released so we don't know if this is the only thing or if there is more. He refused to cooperate with the report a few months ago, so maybe there are more accusations that haven't leaked - who knows. I think some of his tweets in the past are pretty racist though.

He clearly wasn't pally with them and they did take offense though, which is why it is in the report. While his defense is to deny it completely rather than say it was banter like Ballance.

Baring in mind his various tweets I genuinely don't know how you've decided it was certainly in jest though? He might have meant it in that way, none of us can know what's going on in his head. But based on his record I think many would dispute it.

 

[Mackem DJ]

So far, the report hasn't been released so we don't know if this is the only thing or if there is more. He refused to cooperate with the report a few months ago, so maybe there are more accusations that haven't leaked - who knows. I think some of his tweets in the past are pretty racist though.

He clearly wasn't pally with them and they did take offense though, which is why it is in the report. While his defense is to deny it completely rather than say it was banter like Ballance.

Baring in mind his various tweets I genuinely don't know how you've decided it was certainly in jest though? He might have meant it in that way, none of us can know what's going on in his head. But based on his record I think many would dispute it.

Very fair point. And yeah, his tweeting history would have you believe he IS a bit racist so maybe he did mean it. But I dont think so, more so that he was being his usual clever self, being a gobshite, close to the cuff. Strikes me as a similar type bloke to that other banterlicious whopper from the same era Graeme Swann.

Either way i’m not arsed if he meant it or not if it means he’s cancelled tbh (or whatever they want to call it).

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I personally can’t stand Michael Vaughan and i’m glad he’s in for a cancelling (or whatever the cancel culture deniers call it)

We know his social media has a whiff of potential racism about it and we know he is a massive gobshite / oaf. BUT (i’m gonna get pelters here), for the purposes of debate and understanding his likely defence:

To my knowledge this is the only racial comment he’s accused of saying. Is there an acceptable context he may have said those words in (as that is probably what his argunent is going to be based on, lets be honest). Ie If he thought he was pally with them four lads and they’d not take offence. It was almost certainly said in jest despite the fact there is a pretty rancid backdrop of more forthright and blatant / offensive racism at YCCC & other counties.

Is there any context to be offered where this isn’t actually as bad as it seems?

There are definitely other possibilities than "Vaughan made this comment, meant it literally and wholeheartedly and is therefore a racist". Once the media, Twitter blue checks etc smell blood though then the person facing the allegation is usually done and I can't see Vaughan's media career surviving this (at least in this country).

My guess is that he made the comment (or something similar) intending it to be taken in a jocular way and has ended up putting his foot in it big time. If he was actually racist you'd expect there to be more evidence such as Asian players being left out the team during his captaincy etc.

 

[maghater]

I would refute his point on that.

This article doesn't defend him.

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Shahzad simply may not have heard what Vaughan is alleged to have said.

He hasn't on record said Vaughan didn't say what the others heard.

So Vaughan's telling porkies again.

Shahzad says in the article that you posted that he had never experienced racism in cricket.

Dont really know what you are banging on about. Shahzad didn't hear Vaughans racist comment, despite Rafiq saying he was present. I am just pointing out that making accusations against someone which is likely to damage their reputation and future income, can have serious repercussions. Eight players either didn't hear, or cant remember the comment, whilst three can, one of whom has a financial interest in the case being proved.
Never met Vaughan and dont particularly like YCCC, but the modern practice of naming and shamming celebrities in the press with little or no evidence is shameful.

 

[SAFC1962]

I don't think there will be one sportsman out there who has not made a remark at some stage in there career that could be taken as a "crime" in these "woke" days. Sticks and stones.....

Move on, we are talking 10+ years ago, no one was hurt or assaulted.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So far, the report hasn't been released so we don't know if this is the only thing or if there is more. He refused to cooperate with the report a few months ago, so maybe there are more accusations that haven't leaked - who knows. I think some of his tweets in the past are pretty racist though.

He clearly wasn't pally with them and they did take offense though, which is why it is in the report. While his defense is to deny it completely rather than say it was banter like Ballance.

Baring in mind his various tweets I genuinely don't know how you've decided it was certainly in jest though? He might have meant it in that way, none of us can know what's going on in his head. But based on his record I think many would dispute it.

Are his tweets that bad really? Obviously not bad enough to have caused an uproar until now.

Liking Trump isn't racist, the Moeen Ali thing is pretty thick/poorly thought out but wouldn't say it was necessarily racist, the Sri Lanka thing is clearly just a joke and the "nobody speaks English in London" one is like something your Dad would come out with. If he's racist based on those tweets then probably half the country are.

 

[Ashley In!!]

Are his tweets that bad really? Obviously not bad enough to have caused an uproar until now.

Liking Trump isn't racist, the Moeen Ali thing is pretty thick/poorly thought out but wouldn't say it was necessarily racist, the Sri Lanka thing is clearly just a joke and the "nobody speaks English in London" one is like something your Dad would come out with. If he's racist based on those tweets then probably half the country are.

How many of these "isolated incidents" would it take for you to think it may be ingrained in his character?

 

[Medulla]

as things stand Vaughan s solicitors might be getting excited about a claim for compo.

And presumably you will be reading something into the strength of his defence here if that doesn't happen?

Thought not

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

How many of these "isolated incidents" would it take for you to think it may be ingrained in his character?

The bloke probably isn't voting for the Greens. But that doesn't mean he's a racist.

 

[Ashley In!!]

The bloke probably isn't voting for the Greens. But that doesn't mean he's a racist.

Good effort at answering a different question to the one i asked.

 

[maghater]

And presumably you will be reading something into the strength of his defence here if that doesn't happen?

Thought not

He has 12 months to start proceedings, time will tell

 

[Exapno Mapcase]

Are his tweets that bad really? Obviously not bad enough to have caused an uproar until now.

Liking Trump isn't racist, the Moeen Ali thing is pretty thick/poorly thought out but wouldn't say it was necessarily racist, the Sri Lanka thing is clearly just a joke and the "nobody speaks English in London" one is like something your Dad would come out with. If he's racist based on those tweets then probably half the country are.

This and his Trumping are the only things I have read from his Twitter. This is classic dog whistle racism. I don't know how old your Dad is, but Vaughan is 47 and working in the media, he knows what he is up to. I'm 55 and find his use of this terminology ignorant. Empirically of course he is entirely wrong.

Your dismissal of liking Trump is a moot point. If you are concerned about racism to any degree you would want to distance yourself from him because he is definitely racist.

 

[seaham ftm]

Vaughan has still been involved with the club in Roots time though.

Yes but the alleged incident is 2009.

 

[Mackem DJ]

Are his tweets that bad really? Obviously not bad enough to have caused an uproar until now.

not that bad but they are suss for someone in the public eye and someone that had a privileged role bestowed on him (IE England Cricket Captain, in a halcyon period of our game)

 

[rentaghost]

There are definitely other possibilities than "Vaughan made this comment, meant it literally and wholeheartedly and is therefore a racist". Once the media, Twitter blue checks etc smell blood though then the person facing the allegation is usually done and I can't see Vaughan's media career surviving this (at least in this country).

My guess is that he made the comment (or something similar) intending it to be taken in a jocular way and has ended up putting his foot in it big time. If he was actually racist you'd expect there to be more evidence such as Asian players being left out the team during his captaincy etc.

Or tweeting that he will need to learn a new language to go to London
Or suggest Moeen should spend his time challenging random Muslims to see if they are terrorists
Or take the piss out of the Sri Lankan national anthem
Or be the only voice defending De Kock in the World Cup etc etc

 

[HarrogateMackem]

Very fair point. And yeah, his tweeting history would have you believe he IS a bit racist so maybe he did mean it. But I dont think so, more so that he was being his usual clever self, being a gobshite, close to the cuff. Strikes me as a similar type bloke to that other banterlicious whopper from the same era Graeme Swann.

Either way i’m not arsed if he meant it or not if it means he’s cancelled tbh (or whatever they want to call it).

I mean I think it's a reasonable defense is to come out and say look I meant it as a joke ten years ago when times were different, however in the wake of BLM I have read this, this and this. Or listened to so and so speak, or talked with so and so and reflected on my actions etc., and in light of that I now understand why it wasn't funny and I apologize. But with him, there's just no reflection or sign of understanding. Or any sign of an apology even. He's just denied it happened. Which even if he did think it was a joke, suggests he still doesn't understand what he did wrong/ doesn't feel the need to apologize.

He's certainly not canceled though, Fox hired him after this all came out to commentate on the Ashes on TV. He still has his newspaper articles and massive social media platform. BBC radio show has been suspended until this investigation - but I imagine he'll have that back fairly soon as well personally.

Are his tweets that bad really? Obviously not bad enough to have caused an uproar until now.

Liking Trump isn't racist, the Moeen Ali thing is pretty thick/poorly thought out but wouldn't say it was necessarily racist, the Sri Lanka thing is clearly just a joke and the "nobody speaks English in London" one is like something your Dad would come out with. If he's racist based on those tweets then probably half the country are.

I would say that essentially equating a Muslim cricketer with extremist Islam, essentially saying they're all the same, is pretty racist aye. But the "nobody speaking English in London" is defiantly racist. Half the country or your dad thinking the same isn't a defence like.