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Put a flat earthier into space

Some pretty abusive and condescending people on this thread, it's not nice to read, I don't care what you believe or think you believe, going on like that makes a lot of you look embarrassing.

I agree with @Nukehasslefan on one thing for sure. That we are inside a cell, or an organism or something of that nature. If you get a microscope and look down at every layer of this universe with higher and higher magnification, the structures you see change and what is within them changes too and you could possibly, with unlimited technology, magnify infinitely.

The same applies, in my opinion, for looking up. Why wouldn't our 'layer' if you will, not just be a tiny part of something much bigger. We might be part of a cell of a hair on an organisms toe for all we know. Who in turn might live in a world that is a small part of a piece of rock in a much larger universe or layer.

It's all a question of scale. So yep, he has my agreement on that. If that makes me a bellend/moron/child/idiot then you need to have a long hard look at yourselves and grow up a bit.

I also believe the Earth is an ellipsoid, as per current science. I believe personally there is enough evidence to support that. I take @Nukehasslefan's argument to the contrary and respect his belief and understanding, I just don't agree with it. I don't hate him for that because I'm intelligent enough to understand that differing opinions often are the biggest drivers of advancement. Cheers.
You know this place and the abuse people get. I have no respect for his views as they refute the most basic science implying it is some sort of conspiracy. It is laughable. It is a series of the most stupid, ignorant and paranoid comments on any subject on here.
You may be right about being within some larger entity than our universe. There is the possibility of there being a bubbling multiverse of universes eternally coming into being and dying off. However, I doubt the hair on the toe thing.
 

It is amazing how someone can look at almost everything and not only fail to understand, but to think that physics, astronomy, chemistry etc are all a lie.
I don't think it's all a lie.
There are best guesses to a lot of physics and working end products to the theories. Astronomy is people looking into the sky and observing what they're told is up there, with no proof.
Chemistry is another where there is a lot of good end product, as well as bad but also (I believe) cloaked realities.

There's a lot of stuff that people cannot prove but go along with. I simply question stuff and will not accept something as a truth without real evidence.
 
I don't think it's all a lie.
There are best guesses to a lot of physics and working end products to the theories. Astronomy is people looking into the sky and observing what they're told is up there, with no proof.
Chemistry is another where there is a lot of good end product, as well as bad but also (I believe) cloaked realities.

There's a lot of stuff that people cannot prove but go along with. I simply question stuff and will not accept something as a truth without real evidence.
So you are on record as saying every image from the Kepler telescope and all data retrieved from it is a hoax and made up?
 
That doesn't address the issue I described to you, of the specific paths the "lights" take across the sky while you're observing them.

I.E if you're near the middle of your disc model in the UK, Europe, Asia or the US, the lights APPEAR to be rotating ANTI-CLOCKWISE around a polar point in the sky.
My model isn't a disc.


Whereas if you're further away from the middle of your disc model in Australia, South Africa, or Argentina, you see a completely different set of lights rotating CLOCKWISE instead, again around a polar point in the sky.
You see the same moon but upside down.
Lights will offer a similar set up.

Many of the lights you will not see.
Your globe has to be tilted and also wobble around a centralised sun for your stuff to work and it has to act in an elliptical orbit.

It makes no sense by logic but plenty of sense if people go with the magical flow. In my opinion.


And if you're halfway in between the middle and the outer rim, the lights instead make a STRAIGHT path across the sky.
There is no rim. It's a sealed cell. Imo.


If you travel from one of these "near the middle" countries to one of the "halfway" countries and on down to one of the "further away" countries, you can watch the transition from one pattern to the next to the next.

When you do this, it is clearly seamless, with no distortions like you might expect if there was a change in curvature of a lens or dome, and no moments where you can see one light turn into two as if reflected against something funnily shaped.

Curved mirrors / lenses / bowls-seen-from-the-inside cannot achieve this effect without the use of magic to deceive the observer.

However if the planet is a sphere then the lights are doing EXACTLY what you would expect them to do.
You know yourself how reflections and mirroring can dstory or even image something opposite.
A dome will offer all kinds of visual light shows from reflections, etc.


----

With regard to "not feeling the motion":

If you're sitting on a train travelling at a constant 150mph with the windows closed, and you throw a tennis ball directly up in the air, it will fall directly back down again in exactly the same way as if the train were not moving at all.
Yep, you're in a cabin that has a pressure equalisation, almost.
A consistent speed means a consistent pressure from front to back of the carriage.
If the train accelerates then the change in pressure builds.




If you walk from the back of the train to the front of the train while it is travelling at constant speed, it takes no more effort than walking from the front of that same train to the back, and no more or less effort to walking in either direction when the train is stationary.
In your mind it takes no extra effort because your body becomes acclimatised but in reality there is a pressure build with each acceleration to a consistent speed.


You cannot feel "constant motion" in a closed system.
Wheels on a track and suspension suggests otherwise.
It depends on how you want to view it.

Now, you can feel acceleration and deceleration, and either of those will affect the path of the tennis ball or your ability to walk from one end of the train to the other. But if the train is moving at a constant speed in a straight path then neither you or the tennis ball would be affected at all.
Pressure change increase or decrease will certainly affect movement.


Water, like everything else, is subject to gravitational force and unless it is also acted upon by an additional net external force, it will fall towards the largest nearby mass, in our case, the planet itself.
Water is subject to atmospheric pressure and it's own mass, nothing more needed.
Gravity is required to keep a globe alive and it makes zero sense and cannot be explained. Imo.

If you take a glass of water and turn it upside down, the water will no longer conform to the shape of the glass, it will fall out onto the floor for the exact same reason that water will fail to conform to a small convex curve/ball when you conduct that experiment this close to the planet Earth.
If you take a glass of water and turn it upside down you immediately open it to atmospheric inrush which pushes out the water.
The water is then pushed to the ground against atmospheric resistance which is no match for the atmospheric push from above, coupled with the water mass itself.


Regardless of the shape of the container, the water always falls towards the centre of the large mass whose gravitational force is acting upon it. In the case of these two containers in our experiment, (the glass and the ball), the large mass towards which the water falls is the centre of the planet itself, and therefore obviously we observe the water conforming to the upright glass but falling off the ball towards the centre of the planet.

Now, if the curved container were suitably huge (say, a few hundred miles across, and curved in such a way that its curvature matched that of the planet) you would be able to see that the water would conform to that shape, just like it does to the small glass or beaker in your home experiment.


No matter how it's dressed up water does not conform to convex curves unless the convex curve has indentations on the top to hold that water, as in the water conforming to a concave container.
Everything about gravity goes against everything we actually observe/perceive.
Equally, if your flat container were suitably huge (say, the same width as the curved one in my example above) then the water would no longer have the same depth all across the container, it would bulge in the middle, as if it were a gently-sloping perfectly curved hill of water, shallower at the edges, deeper in the middle.
If the supposed global gravity worked as we are told then, by what you say, all your water would be pushed to the poles from the so called bulge we get told about.



Now, the container doesn't actually have to be that big for this experiment to work, as long as the curvature of the curved container matched the curvature of the planet. Because of the sheer size of the planet though, with the naked eye, a container small enough to hold in your hand that matched the earth's curvature would be barely distinguishable from a completely flat container, if at all.

So, while you are clearly correct that if you try the experiment at home, water will not conform to a small ball but will conform to a small flat container such as a glass or beaker, in actual fact this is only true if the curved container/ball has a curvature that doesn't match the curvature around the nearest source of gravity, which in our case is the planet itself.
To be fair that makes no sense.


Therefore for a fair test of "flat container versus curved container" for this experiment, you need to use a curved container whose curvature matches the curvature of the Earth, otherwise the experiment is flawed and the conclusion we are led to will be erroneous.
There's a very easy experiment to show it's all atmospheric pressure.

Get a glass and a beer mat. Fill the glass as full as you can and put the beer mat over the glass top. Now tip it upside down.
You know the water is more dense than the atmosphere but the beer mat holds it in the glass.
Gravity should be bringing that water to the centre of the Earth....but it doesn't.

Why?

The glass itself is the key, along with your own strength of holding that glass up.
The atmosphere cannot get inside the glass to push the water down against the resistance so the below resistance hold that water.
The reason for this is, there's very little atmosphere trapped inside the glass and it's this that is too weak to push against the glass and to push out the water.
The above atmosphere over the glass is stopped by the glass bottom.

A clear proof it's atmospheric pressure and a clear fallacy of gravity. In my humble opinion, of course.
There are a lot of insults coming the other way too. Calling us psudo-scientists, sheep, people who don’t understand and can only regurgitate what we have been schooled, lacking in independent thought, claiming we don’t understand basic maths and physics, along with some other very patronising comments, etc.

It works both ways.
I have never called you sheep or pseudo-scientists.
I include myself in the schooled stuff because I was.
I also don't claim you don't understand basic maths.
You know this so I won't argue it.
 
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So you are on record as saying every image from the Kepler telescope and all data retrieved from it is a hoax and made up?
If the Kepler telescope is on some mountain then it may be a real telescope looking up and seeing a lot more than we can see.
In space? I don't believe in the space we're told about so I can't obviously believe in a space telescope or all the other so called space stuff.
It literally makes no sense for a number of reasons.
 
If the Kepler telescope is on some mountain then it may be a real telescope looking up and seeing a lot more than we can see.
In space? I don't believe in the space we're told about so I can't obviously believe in a space telescope or all the other so called space stuff.
It literally makes no sense for a number of reasons.
And your reasons are?
 
I don't think it's all a lie.
There are best guesses to a lot of physics and working end products to the theories. Astronomy is people looking into the sky and observing what they're told is up there, with no proof.
Chemistry is another where there is a lot of good end product, as well as bad but also (I believe) cloaked realities.

There's a lot of stuff that people cannot prove but go along with. I simply question stuff and will not accept something as a truth without real evidence.
I think where that statement falls down is that you dismiss all evidence as a hoax/conspiracy/psudo-science/nice little story, then replace it with something that has zero evidence or is staggeringly wrong on so many levels then make patronising comments about people being schooled sheep. Is there any wonder people see you as a nutter?

If you replaced reality with something that had a shred of evidence and was not just handwavey "oh an optical illusion" then it might be seen as more credible.

But that is what really interests me about conspiracy theorists. The scope for rational thought just doesn't seem to be there. Take one of the popular ones that a few people have done YouTube videos about. "If the world was a globe then pilots flying north to south would have to constantly keep dipping the nose of their plane down to avoid going into space". First of all it is a load of rubbish and second of all even if that were true, due to the size of the earth I worked it out once as something like half a degree every 15 minutes.

But, they cling to that and claim the world is a disc so ok, lets give them that for a second and think about the implications of that. Now a plane going east to west has to fly in a circle. That means by the self same argument that a pilot flying due west needs to constantly bank right and this is not a reported phenomena. When people have pointed this out, you get "special reasons". There is literally no logic to the arguments. You have people pull apart the accepted reality mostly with lack of understanding and replace it with a new reality that falls down at the first sign of scrutiny but they can't seem to apply the same level of analysis to their own theories as they do to everything else.

I require proof, unless it is my stuff then hey, lets just go with it.
We don't have anything that could work in a so called space vacuum.
There's enough experiments that prove propulsion needs a medium.
It's as simple as that really.
What experiments?
I have never called you sheep or pseudo-scientists.
I include myself in the schooled stuff because I was.
I also don't claim you don't understand basic maths.
You know this so I won't argue it.
You call astronomers psudo-scientists and I'm an astronomer. I have provided mathematical proofs on here a number of times and you say it is fundamentally wrong, so yes you do.
 
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I think where that statement falls down is that you dismiss all evidence as a hoax/conspiracy/psudo-science/nice little story, then replace it with something that has zero evidence or is staggeringly wrong on so many levels then make patronising comments about people being schooled sheep.
What I'm arguing against has zero proof .
As for me calling you a sheep. I never have.
We are all schooled.


Is there any wonder people see you as a nutter?
I don't care what people see me as. They are free to make their choice.

If you replaced reality with something that had a shred of evidence and was not just handwavey "oh an optical illusion" then it might be seen as more credible.
I give out my answers how I see fit. I'm not asking you to like them or go with them or think better of me.
It is what it is and I stand by what I say, regardless.


But that is what really interests me about conspiracy theorists. The scope for rational thought just doesn't seem to be there.
That's just a classic attempted put down narrative so it has zero effect on me. I wouldn't waste your time with it.


Take one of the popular ones that a few people have done YouTube videos about. "If the world was a globe then pilots flying north to south would have to constantly keep dipping the nose of their plane down to avoid going into space". First of all it is a load of rubbish and second of all even if that were true, due to the size of the earth I worked it out once as something like half a degree every 15 minutes.
You say it's a load of rubbish but the reality is, if the Earth was a globe then not only would a plane have to navigate that convex curve but also go with or against a supposed dragged atmosphere that apparently is in unison with the spinning gound and yet also have clouds moving in all kinds of directions.

We are simply schooled into a belief that it makes sense when it makes no sense, at all.


But, they cling to that and claim the world is a disc so ok, lets give them that for a second and think about the implications of that.


The disc gets mentioned a lot. It's a go to argument when there are many alternate views on Earth shape...etc.
Now a plane going east to west has to fly in a circle. That means by the self same argument that a pilot flying due west needs to constantly bank right and this is not a reported phenomena.
Because planes fly from point to point, not around a circle.
The only times a plane needs to bank is to avoid weather or to align for navigation and to also circle to come in to land, depending on the airport.


When people have pointed this out, you get "special reasons". There is literally no logic to the arguments. You have people pull apart the accepted reality mostly with lack of understanding and replace it with a new reality that falls down at the first sign of scrutiny but they can't seem to apply the same level of analysis to their own theories as they do to everything else.

I require proof, unless it is my stuff then hey, lets just go with it.
There is no proof of a spinning globe.
 
What I'm arguing against has zero proof .
As for me calling you a sheep. I never have.
We are all schooled.



I don't care what people see me as. They are free to make their choice.


I give out my answers how I see fit. I'm not asking you to like them or go with them or think better of me.
It is what it is and I stand by what I say, regardless.



That's just a classic attempted put down narrative so it has zero effect on me. I wouldn't waste your time with it.



You say it's a load of rubbish but the reality is, if the Earth was a globe then not only would a plane have to navigate that convex curve but also go with or against a supposed dragged atmosphere that apparently is in unison with the spinning gound and yet also have clouds moving in all kinds of directions.

We are simply schooled into a belief that it makes sense when it makes no sense, at all.





The disc gets mentioned a lot. It's a go to argument when there are many alternate views on Earth shape...etc.

Because planes fly from point to point, not around a circle.
The only times a plane needs to bank is to avoid weather or to align for navigation and to also circle to come in to land, depending on the airport.



There is no proof of a spinning globe.

You keep saying there's no proof of a spinning globe, despite mountains of empirical evidence being given to you in this thread. All stuff which you can check out yourself with basic equipment.
 
You keep saying there's no proof of a spinning globe, despite mountains of empirical evidence being given to you in this thread. All stuff which you can check out yourself with basic equipment.
That was the point I was making about the theorists. They dismiss mountains of evidence and claim zero proof, then replace it with something with zero proof. Or the other trait is that they are deliberately vague about so it becomes harder to attack. Look at the dribble above. Not saying the earth is a flat disc but it is not a globe either. He has been asked many times "so what is it", but nothing ever comes of that. All the questions are designed to provoke a response "please tell us more", it gives the attention it craves and I'm suspecting reinforcing an internal image as a hero of truth.
We are all schooled.
You use this phrase a lot. It sounds like you mean something drilled in that we accept without rational question and I believe you have said that before.

What do you mean by schooled? Educated?
 
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What I'm arguing against has zero proof .
As for me calling you a sheep. I never have.
We are all schooled.



I don't care what people see me as. They are free to make their choice.


I give out my answers how I see fit. I'm not asking you to like them or go with them or think better of me.
It is what it is and I stand by what I say, regardless.



That's just a classic attempted put down narrative so it has zero effect on me. I wouldn't waste your time with it.



You say it's a load of rubbish but the reality is, if the Earth was a globe then not only would a plane have to navigate that convex curve but also go with or against a supposed dragged atmosphere that apparently is in unison with the spinning gound and yet also have clouds moving in all kinds of directions.

We are simply schooled into a belief that it makes sense when it makes no sense, at all.





The disc gets mentioned a lot. It's a go to argument when there are many alternate views on Earth shape...etc.

Because planes fly from point to point, not around a circle.
The only times a plane needs to bank is to avoid weather or to align for navigation and to also circle to come in to land, depending on the airport.



There is no proof of a spinning globe.
What about the 15 degree per hour drift?
 
There is no proof but there are plenty of stories, like I said.

What do you think the motives and benefits are of people making it up that it's a globe, then sticking with that for hubdreds of years?
If it was a disc or a dome or whatever why not just say that it's a disc/dome/flat/concave cell etc?
What's the point of having thousands of people all lying about it?
 
You use this phrase a lot. It sounds like you mean something drilled in that we accept without rational question and I believe you have said that before.

What do you mean by schooled? Educated?
We are massively schooled. There's no getting away from that. And I include myself heavily into that.
The issues are in who accepts it without question or who feels no need to go against the grain, to those who say "hmmmmm, hang on a minute."

We are force to follow a curriculum. We get marked on examinations of what we absorbed.
If we were told a Tumptysaurus roamed Earth 80 trillion years ago and ate apple pips, we might sit back and say "hmmmm" but if the exam sheep has a question of, what prehistoric dinosaur lived on apple pips we'd be answering with "Tumptysaurus".

Asked how many years ago it roamed Earth and we would put 80 trillion.

Anything other gets you no marks.
It may be a way out scenario but take a look at what we're told to believe.
What about the 15 degree per hour drift?
Explain what you mean.
Drift to where?
What causes this drift in a supposed space vacuum?
 
We are massively schooled. There's no getting away from that. And I include myself heavily into that.
The issues are in who accepts it without question or who feels no need to go against the grain, to those who say "hmmmmm, hang on a minute."

We are force to follow a curriculum. We get marked on examinations of what we absorbed.
If we were told a Tumptysaurus roamed Earth 80 trillion years ago and ate apple pips, we might sit back and say "hmmmm" but if the exam sheep has a question of, what prehistoric dinosaur lived on apple pips we'd be answering with "Tumptysaurus".

Asked how many years ago it roamed Earth and we would put 80 trillion.

Anything other gets you no marks.
It may be a way out scenario but take a look at what we're told to believe.

Explain what you mean.
Drift to where?
What causes this drift in a supposed space vacuum?
Have you not seen the flat earh documentary where they used a ring laser gyroscope and detected a 15 degree per hour drift? They paid 20k for a gyroscope to disprove the rotation of the Earth, but in reality they debunked themselves.
We are massively schooled. There's no getting away from that. And I include myself heavily into that.
The issues are in who accepts it without question or who feels no need to go against the grain, to those who say "hmmmmm, hang on a minute."

We are force to follow a curriculum. We get marked on examinations of what we absorbed.
If we were told a Tumptysaurus roamed Earth 80 trillion years ago and ate apple pips, we might sit back and say "hmmmm" but if the exam sheep has a question of, what prehistoric dinosaur lived on apple pips we'd be answering with "Tumptysaurus".

Asked how many years ago it roamed Earth and we would put 80 trillion.

Anything other gets you no marks.
It may be a way out scenario but take a look at what we're told to believe.

Explain what you mean.
Drift to where?
What causes this drift in a supposed space vacuum?
So, are you saying that you don't believe in the existence of dinosaurs, serious question, how old do you think the earth is.
 
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What do you think the motives and benefits are of people making it up that it's a globe, then sticking with that for hubdreds of years?
If it was a disc or a dome or whatever why not just say that it's a disc/dome/flat/concave cell etc?
What's the point of having thousands of people all lying about it?
I don't know all the answers. Maybe nobody does.
A guess could be hiding a lot more of Earth and controlling us into a belief that there's nothing more to explore.
Maybe some are living in a paradise while we're made to feel content being stuck in rabbit hutches with boundaries and a belief that we're free.

The list is probably long as to what maybe what.
To think we simply spin in a vacuum at a tilted axis around a big ball of fire/plasma or nuclear fusion, or whatever is nuts to me.
It didn't used to be because I was schooled into it all.
 
We are massively schooled. There's no getting away from that. And I include myself heavily into that.
The issues are in who accepts it without question or who feels no need to go against the grain, to those who say "hmmmmm, hang on a minute."

We are force to follow a curriculum. We get marked on examinations of what we absorbed.
If we were told a Tumptysaurus roamed Earth 80 trillion years ago and ate apple pips, we might sit back and say "hmmmm" but if the exam sheep has a question of, what prehistoric dinosaur lived on apple pips we'd be answering with "Tumptysaurus".

Asked how many years ago it roamed Earth and we would put 80 trillion.

Anything other gets you no marks.
It may be a way out scenario but take a look at what we're told to believe.

Explain what you mean.
Drift to where?
What causes this drift in a supposed space vacuum?
So, are you saying that you don't believe in the existence of dinosaurs, serious question, how old do you think the earth is?
 
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