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[1st Test] England v Pakistan (Old Trafford)

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Jack Torrance said:
It's not bad for a spinner. Lyon probably best around at the moment and averages over 31
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That wasn’t really the point anyway. I stated that Bess was a mediocre spinner, chops tried to say he wasn’t and used his average to argue that.

I was basing my opinion on what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

Maybe one day Bess will be the second coming of Graham Swann. I hope he is, but at present, I’ve no confidence in him spinning a side out on Day 1 of a Test Match.
 
brandon said:
That wasn’t really the point anyway. I stated that Bess was a mediocre spinner, chops tried to say he wasn’t and used his average to argue that.

I was basing my opinion on what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

Maybe one day Bess will be the second coming of Graham Swann. I hope he is, but at present, I’ve no confidence in him spinning a side out on Day 1 of a Test Match.
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This nails it for me.

I like Bess, but he is a bit of a "bits and pieces" cricketer. He's tidy, he can do a job and hold an end, but he's no threat.

Has to be said that the same was said of Lyon when he first came on, and Bess is young and shown that he learns quite quickly - there's no reason he can't turn into a good Test spinner.

But right now, he's relatively harmless.

I think him and Leach are both massively helped by bowling on Taunton beach.
 
brandon said:
That wasn’t really the point anyway. I stated that Bess was a mediocre spinner, chops tried to say he wasn’t and used his average to argue that.

I was basing my opinion on what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

Maybe one day Bess will be the second coming of Graham Swann. I hope he is, but at present, I’ve no confidence in him spinning a side out on Day 1 of a Test Match.
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Do you rate Lyon
 
TheRey said:
This nails it for me.

I like Bess, but he is a bit of a "bits and pieces" cricketer. He's tidy, he can do a job and hold an end, but he's no threat.

Has to be said that the same was said of Lyon when he first came on, and Bess is young and shown that he learns quite quickly - there's no reason he can't turn into a good Test spinner.

But right now, he's relatively harmless.

I think him and Leach are both massively helped by bowling on Taunton beach.
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Bess was helped so massively by the conditions at Taunton that he was loaned to Yorkshire last summer.....
 
Let’s be honest, the england spin department isn’t strong

Modern - looks like the end
Bess - young, looked decent in SA, can hold a bat. But nothing special (yet)
Leach - cult figure. Genuinely don’t think he is good enough with the ball
Rashid - superb in white all stuff, no interest in red ball cricket
Virdi - talented apparently, can he be arsed?
Crane - no more false dawns...

i would stick with Bess for now
 
brandon said:
That wasn’t really the point anyway. I stated that Bess was a mediocre spinner, chops tried to say he wasn’t and used his average to argue that.

I was basing my opinion on what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

Maybe one day Bess will be the second coming of Graham Swann. I hope he is, but at present, I’ve no confidence in him spinning a side out on Day 1 of a Test Match.
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For what it's worth I agree he's not a match winning spinner yet but I think he's done alright so far and clearly is talented. I'd have played Leach in this game (as I would the final test against the Windies). We don't really have many alternatives
 
chunkylover53 said:
Let’s be honest, the england spin department isn’t strong

Modern - looks like the end
Bess - young, looked decent in SA, can hold a bat. But nothing special (yet)
Leach - cult figure. Genuinely don’t think he is good enough with the ball
Rashid - superb in white all stuff, no interest in red ball cricket
Virdi - talented apparently, can he be arsed?
Crane - no more false dawns...

i would stick with Bess for now
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Agree. Wouldn't go back to Moeen, we need to move on without him. Bess or Leach for me unless Rashid can get his finger out.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Let’s be honest, the england spin department isn’t strong

Modern - looks like the end
Bess - young, looked decent in SA, can hold a bat. But nothing special (yet)
Leach - cult figure. Genuinely don’t think he is good enough with the ball
Rashid - superb in white all stuff, no interest in red ball cricket
Virdi - talented apparently, can he be arsed?
Crane - no more false dawns...

i would stick with Bess for now
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Agree with this. Bess just because there are no other options tbh. But let’s be honest, we’re at home so we should be preparing pitches that suit our seam bowlers, who shouldn’t have problems bowling people out on day one of a test.
 
TravellingMackem said:
Agree with this. Bess just because there are no other options tbh. But let’s be honest, we’re at home so we should be preparing pitches that suit our seam bowlers, who shouldn’t have problems bowling people out on day one of a test.
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We bowled badly after lunch yesterday, hopefully they'll have had a bit of a kick up the backside, a rethink and improve this morning. Warm(ish), overcast and damp at the moment so I think they'll start on time and conditions should be good for bowling.
 
mikemanc said:
We bowled badly after lunch yesterday, hopefully they'll have had a bit of a kick up the backside, a rethink and improve this morning. Warm(ish), overcast and damp at the moment so I think they'll start on time and conditions should be good for bowling.
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It's a perfect morning for swing bowling, 3-4 wickets in the morning session should be the minimum.
 
Scunny Dan said:
Couldnt really be doing with Moeen. All that shite about having to play another twirler so he didn't feel pressure as the front line spinner.

Not exactly the man you'd want with the Ashes on the line on a final day turner.
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Third highest wicket taker for England in the 4th innings with a better average than Underwood and Swann

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