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June to July 2020 - NUFC

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The Fish said:
Aside from claims that winning the Championship, getting 44pts in the PL, then 45pts in the PL is somehow taking us backwards, most of your post is just flat out wind-up material.

No, it's not. But if it makes you feel better, you crack on.
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You've slagged off Bruce non stop on this thread even though he's doing better than Rafa yet you claim you wouldn't give him shit for not winning a game until November.

Aye reeto
 

Binxy said:
You've slagged off Bruce non stop on this thread yet you claim you wouldn't give him shit for not winning a game until November.

Aye reeto
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I don't rate him. I don't think a single Premier League club would have given him a job in the summer. I think the longer he stays the worse the results will get. I think he's been very fortunate this season and has relied way too much on Dubravka being a good 'keeper.

That said, he's done better than I thought he would, he has kept us up and we have played some entertaining football at times.
 
The Fish said:
when Kenedy signed on loan we were 15th, 3pts off 10th, 3 pts off 18th. And Kenedy didn't force Benitez' hand, Kenedy was brought in to play left wing by Benitez. Your position on this topic appears to be that Kenedy was foisted upon Benitez, and the manager ripped up his game plan to accommodate a player who featured 13 times, with 2 goals and 2 assists. The 2 goals coming in the same game. Our climb up the table wasn't down to Kenedy single-handedly dragging us up the table, it was more down to Perez getting 6 goals in the run in.
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Kenedy was the catalyst that sparked that revival of player's/teams fortunes.

The Fish said:
We had more points in Benitez' final season than 17/18. How is that going backwards?
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Where did we finish?
Did we finish higher or lower than the season before he left?


The Fish said:
If the manager can't sign the players he wants (that wouldn't breaking the bank), it's not as much an excuse as it is a reason. Benitez was paid very handsomely because he's a very good manager. A manger who delivered on his targets; automatic promotion, survival, safety respectively. Just curious, what did you think of Hughton's tenure?
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Benitez was average for us and that's what counts.
What he did for other clubs means absolutely nothing where Newcastle's concerned. It's about his Ability to justify his massive wages by working within his means and building within the club's means.
In my entire Newcastle supporting experiences he's arguably one of the most frustrating managers I've ever seen for how he went about things.

As for hughton, he did a very good job and had us playing some decent football. He got crapped on by Ashley and didn't deserve it.
He's one manager/person that I hold in high esteem.
 
Nukehasslefan said:
Let's put it into real context.
Benitez came with 10 games to go when we were one point from safety. 10 games and we got relegated. It may not have been all his fault but he should've done better.

Then he basically gets bankrolled to make his life an easy ride in the championship, with players kept on premier league wages, also.
Then he has a first season where he finishes 10th but for half of it we were struggling so badly until Kenedy forced his hand into having a real go at taking the game to teams. It worked.

The same happened in his final season but we still went backwards from the season before.

My post is my opinion and just because I'm a Newcastle fan does not mean I'm going to blow smoke up his bum when he clearly didn't deserve it.
For a manager paid 5/6 million a season (?) I expected a little bit better football, no matter what excuses were made about players he couldn't get so he had to go for 4th choices...etc.
That's just excuses after excuses.

The man was so far up his own bum. Everything was anyone's fault, but his.
Are you too used to fellow fans backing you up?
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As a fellow black and white I wholeheartedly agree with your points. Not only that, it is simply impossible to have an objective conversation about the previous manager without them waffling about stats and jargon.
I’ve no problem if people don’t like a manager or player, that’s entirely up to them, but I find it unbelievable that people can’t give a bit of credit and admit that Bruce is doing a decent job and certainly no worse than the last bloke.
 
Nukehasslefan said:
Kenedy was the catalyst that sparked that revival of player's/teams fortunes.
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I wholeheartedly disagree, it was Perez' traditional uplift in form in the run in plus the freedom given to the players to attack more after safety was more assured. Kenedy was good, but his added spark wasn't in spite of Benitez but very much because Benitez brought him into the club to do that job. Credit goes to Kenedy for his form, but Benitez for bringing him in. You don't give Benitez any credit for it.

Where did we finish?
Did we finish higher or lower than the season before he left?
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We finished on more points, and given we cannot influence other teams' final positions it's the best measure of our success/failure/progress/decline.


Benitez was average for us and that's what counts.
What he did for other clubs means absolutely nothing where Newcastle's concerned. It's about his Ability to justify his massive wages by working within his means and building within the club's means.
In my entire Newcastle supporting experiences he's arguably one of the most frustrating managers I've ever seen for how he went about things.
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In his full seasons Benitez got us promoted as champions, kept us up first season back, then improved on that season's points tally. If that's average to you, then you have more unrealistic expectations of a manager than I do. Especially one working for this owner.

In the previous 10 seasons in the top flight we finished with fewer than 44points on 6 occasions. So, purely in terms of points returned for Newcastle United in the top flight he was above average. Under Ashley Newcastle have finished in the top half on 3 occasions in 12 seasons, one of those under Benitez. Again, better than average. Average PL league position under Ashley? 12.9. Average PL position for Benitez? 11.5. Better than average.

You repeat a line of reasoning I see on here; implying that he's a chequebook manager. He didn't want to spend £40m on Joelinton, he wanted to spend £16m on Rondon. How is that anything but working within his means? He was promised "every penny the club makes", but was not given that. £32m profit in his first full season, £22m loss in second (so still £10m up), £7m loss in his 3rd (still £3m up). That's working within his, and the clubs, means.

As for hughton, he did a very good job and had us playing some decent football. He got crapped on by Ashley and didn't deserve it.
He's one manager/person that I hold in high esteem.
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Hughton played similarly pragmatic, defensive football to Benitez. And has done at every club he's managed since.

For me, I think it comes down tot he fact you don't like Benitez the man. Which is fine, you're free to dislike whoever you want, but the reasons you put forward just don't stack up to any kind of scrutiny.
mad cyril said:
As a fellow black and white I wholeheartedly agree with your points. Not only that, it is simply impossible to have an objective conversation about the previous manager without them waffling about stats and jargon.
I’ve no problem if people don’t like a manager or player, that’s entirely up to them, but I find it unbelievable that people can’t give a bit of credit and admit that Bruce is doing a decent job and certainly no worse than the last bloke.
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I also find that unbelievable.
 
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The Fish said:
I wholeheartedly disagree, it was Perez' traditional uplift in form in the run in plus the freedom given to the players to attack more after safety was more assured. Kenedy was good, but his added spark wasn't in spite of Benitez but very much because Benitez brought him into the club to do that job. Credit goes to Kenedy for his form, but Benitez for bringing him in. You don't give Benitez any credit for it.

We finished on more points, and given we cannot influence other teams' final positions it's the best measure of our success/failure/progress/decline.



In his full seasons Benitez got us promoted as champions, kept us up first season back, then improved on that season's points tally. If that's average to you, then you have more unrealistic expectations of a manager than I do. Especially one working for this owner.

In the previous 10 seasons in the top flight we finished with fewer than 44points on 6 occasions. So, purely in terms of points returned for Newcastle United in the top flight he was above average. Under Ashley Newcastle have finished in the top half on 3 occasions in 12 seasons, one of those under Benitez. Again, better than average. Average PL league position under Ashley? 12.9. Average PL position for Benitez? 11.5. Better than average.

You repeat a line of reasoning I see on here; implying that he's a chequebook manager. He didn't want to spend £40m on Joelinton, he wanted to spend £16m on Rondon. How is that anything but working within his means? He was promised "every penny the club makes", but was not given that. £32m profit in his first full season, £22m loss in second (so still £10m up), £7m loss in his 3rd (still £3m up). That's working within his, and the clubs, means.


Hughton played similarly pragmatic, defensive football to Benitez. And has done at every club he's managed since.

For me, I think it comes down tot he fact you don't like Benitez the man. Which is fine, you're free to dislike whoever you want, but the reasons you put forward just don't stack up to any kind of scrutiny.

I also find that unbelievable.
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Ok then

NUFC all time average position 14.2
Ashley's average position 12.9

What an owner he's got you punching above your weight.
 
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