15 out of 23 teams

[DEfromBC]

How many games are left? Something like 8?

I'd like to see some sort of statistical analysis of how the last 8 games affect the finishing position over say the last 10 seasons of teams.

It's hugely unfair on any team to take any conclusions from an incomplete season. We should either scrap it entirely or play it out whenever it is safe.

If we were lying second it would be interesting to know people's HONEST opinion on this

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

We've ended up 8th (7th really), without the season finishing, we are level on points with the playoffs, 3 points off second and have 2 teams above us to play. It's more like musical chairs than a football season, the one thing I can appreciate of the current arseholes is they want to play on.

Personally I think we should not attend the away games next season (or whenever we can) vs the clubs who vote to end this one.

Absolutely spot-on. They'll need us a lot more than we'll need them. Let's see how they cope without the guaranteed full away end they rely on. Also, make sure they are charged the absolute maximum we can for tickets at our place so, any sent back, they have to pay us full whack.

Fuck them

 

[Blue_Monday]

You’ve missed the point. Sunderland being eighth is not the point. Clubs voting to curtail the season on safety or monetary means then playing more matches is the point.
Boltons games should be struck from the record and the rejigged table looked at again.
Any team with a chance of promotion should be invited to carry on in a rejigged format.
[/QUOTE]

Bolton's games should be struck from the record because Sunderland couldn't beat them on two separate occasions despite them being one of the worst teams in the league? I would say that's a failure on Sunderland's part rather than PPG being unfair. Just think about it all Sunderland had to do was beat Bolton's kids once and they would be all for PPG happening as it would mean they would be in the playoffs.

 

[Flash Gordon]

I can understand why some times might want to end the season because they'll actually lose money by playing and they'll be financially unstable. I have no issues with clubs looking after themselves in this way.

But it's wrong to end it in safety reasons but then have playoffs.

It's also wrong to vote to end it and then get a say in how it ends which gives your side an advantage. PPG is no fairer than just points in my view unless it's weighted to factor in the opposition.

From our perspective, I want it to resume. But if it doesn't resume, then end it and just send the top 3 up. Scrap the playoffs.

 

[Deleted member 31333]

If Luton and Barnsley come down it’ll be a harder league next year imo. Especially now we’d have even less money. The teams that are going up simply aren’t that good too.

 

[Rober33]

Isnt a single resolution that can please everyone, of course the bigger clubs in this league with the most money want to continue playing as they can afford it. Not fair on those though that would go bust if they had to play another 11 games. They have left it to clubs to vote which is the only fair way of doing it, I didn't like the result of the election but I cant really turn round and say its not fair and corrupt etc. The fact that Sunderland have somehow ended up 8th in this league, which means they are bad enough to miss out on a ppg system is their own fault and not down to the EFL or the clubs voting for PPG.

If we're going to finish the season, let's at least make it fair.

All teams have played at least 34 games, so in order to stop the season at the same point for everyone, we can remove any points earned from games 35 and 36 for those teams that have played them.

The table would then look like this: (Surely a fairer way to calculate PPG?

Position New Position Team GD PTS CHANGE 1 1 Coventry City 18 67 0 2 2 Rotherham United 23 62 0 4 3 Portsmouth 17 59 -1 5 4 Fleetwood Town 13 59 -1 8 5 Wycombe Wanderers 5 59 0 7 6 Sunderland 16 58 -1 3 7 Oxford United 24 57 -3 6 8 Peterborough United 28 56 -3 9 9 Doncaster Rovers 18 54 0 10 10 Ipswich Town 10 52 0 11 11 Gillingham 8 50 -1 12 12 Burton Albion 0 47 -1 13 13 Blackpool 1 45 0 14 14 Bristol Rovers -11 42 -3 16 15 Shrewsbury Town -11 41 0 17 16 Accrington Stanley -6 40 0 15 17 Lincoln City -2 39 -3 18 18 Milton Keynes Dons -11 37 0 19 19 Rochdale -18 36 0 20 20 AFC Wimbledon -13 34 -1 21 21 Tranmere Rovers -24 32 0 22 22 Southend United -46 16 -3 23 23 Bolton Wanderers * -39 14 0

 

[G Force]

No, it isn’t.

If we played the fixtures in a different order, so we had a different set of fixtures left to play, would it be possible that we’d have more points than Rotherham right now? Or Fleetwood? Or Oxford? (Etc)

What if they had a different set of fixtures left too? Could any of them be on fewer points?

A PPG system could never be fair, because it’s assuming that all the fixtures are the same. Which, clearly, they’re not.

Southend away, for example, they have a home record of 10 points from 19 games. They have lost 11 out of these 19 games. It represents a good chance of 3 points for any team in the league. 5 teams in the league have been unlucky to miss this fixture.

Wycombe away, on the other hand, is a hard fixture for anyone, they have and have currently only dropped points 5 times out of 19. 5 teams are lucky to miss this fixture.

Sunderland have played Wycombe A, but not Southend A. They would be awarded 1.64 points for this fixture when they would expect 3 points and be disappointed with 1.

Oxford have played Southend A, but not Wycombe A. They would be awarded 1.71 points for this fixture when they would be happy with 1 point but would probably expect 0 points.

There will be many other examples of this, I’m sure, I just picked the hardest and easiest fixtures in the league to illustrate it.

How could that be considered fair?

This is why it isn’t fair to finish on PPG

Makes a mockery of it all

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

If Luton and Barnsley come down it’ll be a harder league next year imo. Especially now we’d have even less money. The teams that are going up simply aren’t that good too.

This. It was a weaker league this year.

 

[legend7]

So you would happily see half the league go bust just so Sunderland can have a chance of getting into the playoffs? Why don't they just pander to all the bigger clubs and say stuff it lets promote Sunderland, Ipswich and Portsmouth, not fair at all but it keeps the bigger teams with all the money happy.

We have no control over their finances though and that's the rules for the season so why all change now.
I don't want anyone to go bust but if its safe to play, someone's poor finances shouldn't dictate the outcome to a season.
What if they can't afford to play next season?
Just end the league on day one and promote those at the top alphabetically and relegate the others, suppose we will be near the bottom which might please you! ?

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

We have no control over their finances though and that's the rules for the season so why all change now.
I don't want anyone to go bust but if its safe to play, someone's poor finances shouldn't dictate the outcome to a season.
What if they can't afford to play next season?
Just end the league on day one and promote those at the top alphabetically and relegate the others, suppose we will be near the bottom which might please you! ?

100% bang-on. Everyone is in the same boat, just as everyone was in the same boat when they voted not to give Bury more time. Wankers.

 

[Blue_Monday]

If we're going to finish the season, let's at least make it fair.

All teams have played at least 34 games, so in order to stop the season at the same point for everyone, we can remove any points earned from games 35 and 36 for those teams that have played them.

The table would then look like this: (Surely a fairer way to calculate PPG?

Position New Position Team GD PTS CHANGE 1 1 Coventry City 18 67 0 2 2 Rotherham United 23 62 0 4 3 Portsmouth 17 59 -1 5 4 Fleetwood Town 13 59 -1 8 5 Wycombe Wanderers 5 59 0 7 6 Sunderland 16 58 -1 3 7 Oxford United 24 57 -3 6 8 Peterborough United 28 56 -3 9 9 Doncaster Rovers 18 54 0 10 10 Ipswich Town 10 52 0 11 11 Gillingham 8 50 -1 12 12 Burton Albion 0 47 -1 13 13 Blackpool 1 45 0 14 14 Bristol Rovers -11 42 -3 16 15 Shrewsbury Town -11 41 0 17 16 Accrington Stanley -6 40 0 15 17 Lincoln City -2 39 -3 18 18 Milton Keynes Dons -11 37 0 19 19 Rochdale -18 36 0 20 20 AFC Wimbledon -13 34 -1 21 21 Tranmere Rovers -24 32 0 22 22 Southend United -46 16 -3 23 23 Bolton Wanderers * -39 14 0

That table is only fair as it has Sunderland 6th though, it will be unfair on a lot of other teams, no way of doing it is fair aside from playing all the games and that's impossible, PPG is the next fairest way and the way that the majority of the league have voted for, its just unfortunate that Sunderland don't finish in the top 6 because of it.

 

[Rober33]

That table is only fair as it has Sunderland 6th though, it will be unfair on a lot of other teams, no way of doing it is fair aside from playing all the games and that's impossible, PPG is the next fairest way and the way that the majority of the league have voted for, its just unfortunate that Sunderland don't finish in the top 6 because of it.

I agree that the only fair way is to play all of the games but the EFL have proposed a vote which means that it's highly unlikely that clubs are going to vote to do that because of their own self interest.

My proposal happens to favour Sunderland, the EFL favours other clubs and is less fair to Sunderland.

I would argue that all teams having played the same number of games in a season would be fairer. Do you disagree?

 

[Blue_Monday]

I would argue that all teams having played the same number of games in a season would be fairer. Do you disagree?

Fair enough lets go with that, but why take off the last two games? Why not let each team pick the two games of the season they want to remove two games from, Sunderland pick the last two games as it gets them in the playoffs, another team would say that its unfair losing points they have won fairly in their last two games so might want to pick a different set of games.

Whichever way its done its going to cause problems, the only real way they can keep the majority happy is by putting it to a vote which is exactly what they have done.

As said above instead of complaining about how unfair it is, Sunderland should be more bothered that they have found themselves 8th in a tin pot league despite being the biggest club in it by a country mile.

 

[Rober33]

Fair enough lets go with that, but why take off the last two games? Why not let each team pick the two games of the season they want to remove two games from, Sunderland pick the last two games as it gets them in the playoffs, another team would say that its unfair losing points they have won fairly in their last two games so might want to pick a different set of games.

Whichever way its done its going to cause problems, the only real way they can keep the majority happy is by putting it to a vote which is exactly what they have done.

They haven't put anything to the vote.

They've decided how the season will be completed if clubs vote not to play on.

It just so happens that their method of finishing the season means that clubs will only vote to play on if they vote against their own interests. How could a club justify doing that?

 

[JL1985]

When do these 15 want to restart then? Once there’s a vaccine?

 

[Rober33]

Fair enough lets go with that, but why take off the last two games? Why not let each team pick the two games of the season they want to remove two games from, Sunderland pick the last two games as it gets them in the playoffs, another team would say that its unfair losing points they have won fairly in their last two games so might want to pick a different set of games.

Whichever way its done its going to cause problems, the only real way they can keep the majority happy is by putting it to a vote which is exactly what they have done.

As said above instead of complaining about how unfair it is, Sunderland should be more bothered that they have found themselves 8th in a tin pot league despite being the biggest club in it by a country mile.

As you've already said, the season hasn't been completed and we have therefore not finished 8th in a tin pot league.

It's a silly argument which has nothing at all to do with the discussion we're having, which is how to finish this season in a fair way.

 

[the earl percy]

Those who are now pretending to care for the finances of clubs ,didnt seem to make much noise in support of poor old Bury

 

[scott934]

That table is only fair as it has Sunderland 6th though, it will be unfair on a lot of other teams, no way of doing it is fair aside from playing all the games and that's impossible, PPG is the next fairest way and the way that the majority of the league have voted for, its just unfortunate that Sunderland don't finish in the top 6 because of it.

How is playing games impossible? The majority of leagues are starting up again, the 3rd tier in Germany are playing.

 

[the earl percy]

How is playing games impossible? The majority of leagues are starting up again, the 3rd tier in Germany are playing.

I've said from the off the only viable table is one completed with every team playing each other twice.Ive said this before if a game is abandoned then the result dosnt stand ,a season is in this case a series of 44 games .If a race had to be stopped for any reason you wouldn't give the race to the leader with the pack closing in on the last bend it would either be void or rerun ,the same as a abandoned match would be

 

[one footed wonder]

If we were lying second it would be interesting to know people's HONEST opinion on this

The vast majority would go with whatever benefits their club.

The Rotherham, Accrington, Wycombe chairmen, and others in this league have given certain clubs pelters for their views when in reality they are also looking after number 1, just so happens some clubs are being more open about that fact.

At the end of the day we are where we are because we are run by amateurs when the reality is anyone with reasonable ability and acumen would already have this club back in the championship