New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

[samaistonsrightfoot]

I reckon our owners saw they had fucked up their chance of a big pay day, panicked and took anything they could get from them as they realised they still had a football club to run without the coin to do so.

Whole thing is bizarre. Methven was telling anyone who would listen at the time it was a done deal (and he wasn't talking about investment/a loan). Day news broke it fell through the manager got sacked in minutes as a distraction.

Then it's announced they've invested money in us as a gift, then it turns out they've invested in Donald, not the club, but it's a loan using the clubs assets that have been used as security.

Then they say they can't talk about FPP whatsoever due to a confidentiality agreement, and have continued that for months until we've found out they've written the debt (for the origninal para payments) off so now that confidentiality agreement has gone out the window as they are blaming FPP for it but they won't answer other questions on anything because of the confidentiality agreement.

The whole thing stinks.

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

Can I just ask (and I'm not having a go at all) why di you who defend Donald and co do so? I'll defend my club and fellow fans to the hilt but these are just some gadgies from Oxford who have come to make money.

 

[Lewberry pie]

How you make money can classify you as a crook , using the clubs own money to pay for itself and not give it back has them as crook imo, suppose a lot comes down to if you believe a word that comes from there mouths , and I don t

This is something that I find totally weird by the way, no one buys a business with their own money, I get that they've been slippery about the details but paying 40 million up front wouldn't happen in any other world, you always use the future income to buy a business, and if they hadn't bought the coin Ellis would have used it to pay the debt off anyway, it was never coming to the club it was going to be used to pay for mistakes of the past.

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

Whole thing is bizarre. Methven was telling anyone who would listen at the time it was a done deal (and he wasn't talking about investment/a loan). Day news broke it fell through the manager got sacked in minutes as a distraction.

Then it's announced they've invested money in us as a gift, then it turns out they've invested in Donald, not the club, but it's a loan using the clubs assets that have been used as security.

Then they say they can't talk about FPP whatsoever due to a confidentiality agreement, and have continued that for months until we've found out they've written the debt (for the origninal para payments) off so now that confidentiality agreement has gone out the window as they are blaming FPP for it but they won't answer other questions on anything because of the confidentiality agreement.

The whole thing stinks.

That's what I was getting at earlier mate. Both times a story regarding the club's finances was about to break, Donald has withdrawn further from the club and, when he's been asked about finances on the radio, hasn't been able to provide a definitive or simple answer.
His responses always involved caveats, hesitations ("erm erm") and almost fudging

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Anyone have any idea how they can't talk about FPP because of a confidentiality agreement but they can throw them under the bus for the owners writing off debt they owe to us 3 months before anyone had even heard of FPP?

The only possibility is that they had FPP's permission to do so.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

The only possibility is that they had FPP's permission to do so.

But not for anything else?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

But not for anything else?

Correct.

 

[Ale taster]

Quinn appointed Byrne through her positions at the club, not short.

Well we're both partially right and wrong !
Quinn did indeed initially appoint Byrne in 2007 my apologies, but it was in fact under Short in 2011 that she was appointed CEO when she replaced Steve Walton.

 

[Nelly The Elephant]

I can't remember the exact details of their tiff on twitter but I remember it happening, they'd been digging at each other pretty much from day one.

Ok, well, for starters he was actually proved right, not wrong.......

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

Correct.

Why woukd FPP want fans to know they are to blame for writing a debt off but be so secretive about other things that mean much less to anyone?

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

The only possibility is that they had FPP's permission to do so.

So, what is FPP's involvement (if there is any)? Was the holding company disolved in the end and are they just another SBC?
How does a company providing a loan have say over how another is written off, until theirs is defaulted and they take over assets?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Why woukd FPP want fans to know they are to blame for writing a debt off but be so secretive about other things that mean much less to anyone?

No idea. But i doubt that they'd have said anything implicating FPP without their say so.

 

[Lewberry pie]

Ok, well, for starters he was actually proved right, not wrong.......

No he hasn't, the club was sold for about £40 million it just didn't come out of Donald's pocket and it's not clear yet how much running the club well mean he has to put the money back into the club, it's definitely looks Dodgy removing the obligation to pay but that undoubtedly makes buying the club a better proposition, would you want to buy something then be obligated to put another £20 million in? Cause I wouldn't.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

No idea. But i doubt that they'd have said anything implicating FPP without their say so.

Seems more of a case as everthing is confidential because we don't you want to find out but if someone does find something out off their own back and you don't like it we will ask them if it's OK.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

So, what is FPP's involvement (if there is any)? Was the holding company disolved in the end and are they just another SBC?
How does a company providing a loan have say over how another is written off, until theirs is defaulted and they take over assets?

The UK company was dissolved, but the US company set up at the same time is still there. The loan came from that company. There is nothing to prevent them buying either Madrox or Sunderland from that company. A lender can put any conditions it wants over a loan; it's up to the borrower whether or not to accept them. There are possible reasons why which could make sense if they could see themselves being owners in the long term, relating to preferred methods of putting cash into a business, but that's all speculative.

 

[Duncan H]

This is something that I find totally weird by the way, no one buys a business with their own money, I get that they've been slippery about the details but paying 40 million up front wouldn't happen in any other world, you always use the future income to buy a business, and if they hadn't bought the coin Ellis would have used it to pay the debt off anyway, it was never coming to the club it was going to be used to pay for mistakes of the past.
Have you listened to the Keiron McGuire interview yet .? He picked holes in everything they ve done re finances , on top of all the other bull shit they've thrown at us I don t see Donald and Metven as anything other than 2 lying chancers, is that a better word !
Just my opinion

 

[South Banker Wolf]

Can I just ask (and I'm not having a go at all) why di you who defend Donald and co do so? I'll defend my club and fellow fans to the hilt but these are just some gadgies from Oxford who have come to make money.

I know there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and no one will know the full picture until the accounts are published in a couple of months.
But the thing that that sticks in my mind is SD's claim that they had a 5 year plan for SAFC. So that would have meant getting promoted that 1st or 2nd season and then investing in getting a strong team to either challenge or cement a position in the Championship ( personally I don't think they have the wealth for that ) I don't think that 5 year plan ever existed and if they could bullshit the fans about that they could bullshit them about anything. They didn't have to say that. You guys would have been happy with a 3 year plan as long as the parachute money went into strengthening the squad and stabilising the club after 2 consecutive relegations. I just honestly believe you supporters need the truth even if it's something you aren't going to like. That's where SD has gone wrong IMO.

 

[Lewberry pie]

No idea what's happened to the quotes and your entitled to your opinion but I find it weird that an accountant would be so vocal in their upset when business is rife with this sort of thing, I'm not saying I'm happy with how is gone I just don't think they're particularly bad people, their short term planning has fucked three club though.

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

I know there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and no one will know the full picture until the accounts are published in a couple of months.
But the thing that that sticks in my mind is SD's claim that they had a 5 year plan for SAFC. So that would have meant getting promoted that 1st or 2nd season and then investing in getting a strong team to either challenge or cement a position in the Championship ( personally I don't think they have the wealth for that ) I don't think that 5 year plan ever existed and if they could bullshit the fans about that they could bullshit them about anything. They didn't have to say that. You guys would have been happy with a 3 year plan as long as the parachute money went into strengthening the squad and stabilising the club after 2 consecutive relegations. I just honestly believe you supporters need the truth even if it's something you aren't going to like. That's where SD has gone wrong IMO.

Couldn't agree more mate. I can't see any plan beyond the first year, personally as seen by the way they sold anything that could kick a ball straight in the academy.
They were talking about needing investment in January of last year, regardless of division so, the 5 year plan they had seems pie in the sky to me.

 

[Black Cat Gypsy]

Seems more of a case as everthing is confidential because we don't you want to find out but if someone does find something out off their own back and you don't like it we will ask them if it's OK.

If I didn't know better, I'd say they are looking to throw FPP under bus. They know we want FPP and we would welcome them with open arms. (Remember SD saying that's what people want").

Make out that FPP are the bad guys who wanted the loan cleared and they just followed their clients orders.