toosb
Striker
Looks like the selectors agree with me.
-
The forum upgrades are now largely complete.
Please read this thread for more details.
New user registrations are currently disabled.
4th Ashes Test - Old Trafford
- Thread starter Paddy O'Dors
- Start date
- Status
Looks like the selectors agree with me.
Consistently high CC scores is surely the 1st indicator of a potential test player. You then need to look for any weakness that can be exploited at the higher level and ask reliable sources how the player copes with pressure situations.Admittedly now is not the time but surely the likes of Sibley is worthy of consideration purely on the weight of CC runs he has scored this season.
I think Curran is unlucky not to be in the side.
His bowling may be not at the same level as Woakes, but the change of angle and a bit of swing could prove useful, especially against the Aussies weak underbelly - their middle order. Woakes has underperformed recently and Curran has shown that he's a gutsy bugger with the bat in his hand - might be just what's needed in the late middle order.
His bowling may be not at the same level as Woakes, but the change of angle and a bit of swing could prove useful, especially against the Aussies weak underbelly - their middle order. Woakes has underperformed recently and Curran has shown that he's a gutsy bugger with the bat in his hand - might be just what's needed in the late middle order.
smoker
Striker
Buttler has scored 55 runs in six test innings this summer as a specialist batsman. I'd back Curran to beat this in a single match, while taking one or two wickets with his left arm seam and relieving some of the workload on Stokes. Omitting a player who has shown such guts and big game mentality for a player out of form is pretty disgusting TBF.
Steak Pie
Striker
Roy can maybe count himself unlucky in that regard but Buttler has been given every opportunity to bat wherever he likes. Batting at 7 behind the keeper and the allrounder is embarrassing.
112 runs between them in 12 innings, we might as well have played two extra bowlers.
wayne entwhistle no9
Winger
Looks like Stokes has saved a few test careers, in the short term at least.
zebediah
Striker
First class averages are virtually meaningless to me due to too many bowlers with nowt about them. I mean Ballance was considered here at one point due to his first class numbers even though he is already proven not test class. I would draw up a list of genuine test class bowlers, then take batsmen's averages against them only. I bet the batters topping the list would change a fair bit.
I liked how Trescothick was selected. Spotted doing well against a brutal bowling attack in a single match and selected on the back of that. Different selectors now mind.
Voice of fair play
Striker
It’s still only 3 games you know not exactly a massive sample period, considering how Buttler performed last summer and the pedigree Roy has in international cricket.
However the key point here above all others is the real lack of quality alternatives!
I can totally see where you coming from and in diffrent era would agree more.
There is certainly a debate to replace them but it is not staggering or amazing that they
still picked considering the alternatives imo.
Steak Pie
Striker
Buttler though, dropping down to 7 sends warning sirens into overdrive. We all thought he'd (at last) managed to transfer his white ball talent into the red game, but last summer is looking increasingly like the bit that's out of the ordinary in a distinctly average career. Believe me, I'll slag him off loads more if it means he scores like last summer.
Roy has been thrown in and maybe does deserve a longer run further down the order, but we can't keep packing the side with blasters. And we need something to work now.
Whatever though, it's now a moot point. They've picked the same players so we just have to hope they don't let us down again.
rentaghost
Striker
His bowling is not at the same level as Woakes. Conversation should stop there really. Change of angle from a 5ft 7 bowler that farts it out at 80 mph counts for nothing. IF conditions are swing and seam friendly he is more than handy but this really smacks of people trying to find a place for him because of his batting which is wholly wrong. I just saw taking 1 for 92 against Hants where he got the number 11 out. His bowling in most conditions is nowhere near test standard.
Jack Torrance
Striker
He made things happen against India last summer, he's a different option and its pretty evident Woakes is fatigued or Root doesn't fancy him with the ball at the moment. I think he's got to play
rentaghost
Striker
He made things happen against India last year in great conditions and a batch of duke balls that were swinging around corners. Without those conditions he isn’t in the same class as Woakes and if he isn’t fit I would choose Overton ahead of Curran at OT because I think his skill set will be better suited to the conditions. Again people using blurred thinking due to Curran’s decent ability with the bat.
smoker
Striker
Errrr Curran has a better test bowling average than Overton, Woakes and Stokes. Throw in the fact he's a left armer and can bat, it's a no brainer.
Think you're being massively harsh on Curran. It's nailed on we'll have swinging and seaming conditions and we're using the same batch of Duke balls so not sure what your point is there.
The fact is that although he may be 'farting it out at 80mph', he made things happen with the ball last summer as has already been pointed out, and his batting is more than useful particularly when we have issues with the top order/rest of the batting.
Add in the fact he will create rough for Leach to work with against Smith and the other right handers, plus Woakes seemingly out of form and/or not trusted by Root, then Curran for Woakes is an obvious change imo.
rentaghost
Striker
It was also a no brainer according to you that the picked a championship opener that you didn’t know the strengths and weaknesses of and had never seen play. How did that work out? You are the stereotypical ‘go by stats’ poster who doesn’t consider the nuances of the game. Curran’s average had been determined by his selection in conditions perfect for him and that’s good selection. He was a poor choice on harder surfaces down under. If it likely to swing and seam under cloudy skies at OT then he has a chance of being picked but he certainly won’t be picked on having a good average. If you think he’s as good a bowler as Woakes I despair although I do concede he’s been off colour.
Good post. The batch of Duke balls created for 2019 have been far less conducive to swing than those in 2018 which is why in the first two tests teams were trying desperately to get the ball changed (as the used balls were from last years batch) I don’t know what the conditions for OT will be like but if it is a hard, fast track I would go for Overton before Curran. If it’s a bit juicy with the overhead skies than Curran will probably get the nod.
Last edited:
mackembhoy
Striker
A fair point. But we've been selecting players based on bayliss working with them in ODI and T20 cricket. Whether that be in the squad or playing.
Roy Buttler Denly Vince Malan Dawson Hales amongst others have been selected due involvement in white ball cricket.
Stoneman Curran Bess Burns Robson Jennings lyth were all selected for red ball county cricket.
Albeit not consistently but this second group on a whole probably performed better.
I could be wrong but I think the balls used all series have been from last years batch, they haven't been using 2019 balls. Could be wrong, but that's as I understood it. The ball changing I put down to the Australian's gamesmanship and trying every trick in the book when the ball had gone soft and stopped swinging, given the conditions in that first Test were hot and sunny, to try and get an advantage with a 'new' used, changed ball. Which worked incidentally. The forecast for Wednesday onward is rain, cloud and 16 degrees, so I'm expecting very favourable conditions conducive for swing and seam.
rentaghost
Striker
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with selecting players who have done well in red ball cricket. The likes of Stoneman and Burns had aweight of runs over a 5 year period that was making them hard to ignore. Its clearly a strong indicator but there are even more important considerations. How strong is their backfoot game? Do they play the ball late to good effect? What are their performances like against the high quality bowlers? Even if they tick all of the boxes there no guarantee that they will make the step up. Its just the breed of fan who looks at county batting averages and assumes the person with the highest must be the best and must be the next in line. Sibley for example may tick all of these boxes, but posters on here don't know. There may be players with more moderate averages that just have the game and temperament that would transfer itself to test cricket better as it did with the likes of Stewart, Vaughan and Trescothick who were selected at times when there were players with much better first class records.
Fair enough squire - Whatever Duke balls were being used there was certainly swing in perfect conditions at Headingly and if the pitch and overhead conditions are the same at OT then Curran is certainly skilful enough to bowl well in a horses for courses selection. With back to back Test matches, doubts over Woakes fitness and the fact that the Oval is as flat as a witches tit where i think Curran would be cannon fodder, perhaps a change will be made. Whether its Curran or Overton will depend on whether the surface is hard and true, as if often is at OT, or whether there is a bit of moisture supporting the cause of a pitch it up left armer.
Last edited:
- Status
