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2ND ASHES TEST: LORDS

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sonson said:
That’s nonsense mind. It’s possible but unlikely. Australia thrashed us last game, it wasn’t a close contest at all.
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That was more to do with no Anderson and Ali throwing pies. 2 bowlers can’t win a Test Match. Take Smith out of the Aussie side and they are a really weak batting line up.
 
wisemensaysteve said:
Aussie press crying about Archer.
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I love it when they start there whinging shit. It only means the tables have been turned and their getting back what they dished out and they HATE it. Who was the old bloke with the red bandana thing on his head sat on the right hand end? What a wanker.
 
With regards to some of Smith's booing,

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The MCC have acted accordingly to a member yelling abuse to him as he walked back to the pavillion and the member was subsequently ejected. Good on the MCC here, banter is fine but there's a line to cross and unfortunately a small minority of England fans are crossing it. At the end of the day, he was dealt with a potential life threatening situation, that sort behaviour is not appropriate from any fans and its good the MCC recognise there's a line and acted upon. D1ckheads like this don't belong in the game.

Of course telegraph comments are notourisly stupid, so its not surprising there are users wishing harm upon and even hoping he gets killed.
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
We had them at 120-8 mate. Idea that Nathan Lyon and Peter Siddle can add another 150 with Smith if Jof is bowling at them is absolutely for the birds. Pace changes everything - not just pace, terror to be honest.

I also personally think that Jimmy would do Smith on nibblers. He's just a cut above the other lateral movement reliant bowlers we have.
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Doubt Archer would have played if Anderson fit tbh.

Smith averages 63 against Anderson over 20 matches. It’s not like Jimmy has him in his pocket.

The only thing that’s for the birds is attempting to rewrite history. We had them at 120-8 aye but you can’t then go back and just add two new players to that scenario to finish them off, or say it would have been the same had those two started. It might, it might not.

All that matters was that Smith was playing, Anderson and Archer weren’t, and we got smashed. What we can say with certainty is that Smith has made a point of routinely f***ing us-averaging about 140 vs us-and that we don’t have a clue how to get him out up to this point. Now Archer might prove to be the way forward there and I hope he is.

But I’m not going to take one 45 minute spell over thousands of minutes of cricket in which Smith has proven to be an exceptional batsman who can win matches for an otherwise very milquetoast Australia side to say that Smith is now going to be a breeze to get out. He’s faced pace before, just not from England, there’s no indication it’s a silver bullet to finish him easily.

If he’s not playing-completely different proposition of course.
 
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sonson said:
Doubt Archer would have played if Anderson fit tbh.

Smith averages 63 against Anderson over 20 matches. It’s not like Jimmy has him in his pocket.

The only thing that’s for the birds is attempting to rewrite history. We had them at 120-8 aye but you can’t then go back and just add two new players to that scenario to finish them off, or say it would have been the same had those two started. It might, it might not.

All that matters was that Smith was playing, Anderson and Archer weren’t, and we got smashed. What we can say with certainty is that Smith has made a point of routinely f***ing us-averaging about 140 vs us-and that we don’t have a clue how to get him out up to this point. Now Archer might prove to be the way forward there and I hope he is.

But I’m not going to take one 45 minute spell over thousands of minutes of cricket in which Smith has proven to be an exceptional batsman who can win matches for an otherwise very milquetoast Australia side to say that Smith is now going to be a breeze to get out. He’s faced pace before, just not from England, there’s no indication it’s a silver bullet to finish him easily.

If he’s not playing-completely different proposition of course.
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Bit of a pet hate when people do this kind of thing. Like, of course that's all that matters - but we were having a debate about a hypothetical because it's a forum where people like to chat shit about cricket and that was the OP people were discussing. You may as well have said - the only thing that happened is what happened. Total f***ing truism.

I think Anderson has a decent record against him on pitches like we've those we've played on. If you serve him up a road like he got last time at Lords, he'll cart Anderson all over the f***ing shop. That's why I said "on nibblers".

I predict he'll be a different Smith when he lines up in Old Trafford. Listened to his interview an hour ago and he is very shaken. I mean, of course he is - he was f***ing concussed, and was so when he gave the interview. But he admitted he'd have to change his helmet against Archer. When players have taken knocks like that before, it has changed their game completely and even ended careers (Jonathan Trott). Not saying that will happen, but I think you are understating how serious what happened yesterday is. It could have killed him - and there's no way he'll be on the pitch at Headingly if there is anything like a proper duty of care shown for him by his team's medical staff. Three weeks in other sports for that - mandatory.

Also think it's fair to say Archer is pretty clearly the fastest bowler in the world. He's statistically the fastest through the air anyway, but with that action I'd say guess he's a fair bit faster than Starc or Wood or Shami off the pitch too. Hence why he conks so many (as well as his angle). So no, I don't think Smith has faced much like that either tbh.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Bit of a pet hate when people do this kind of thing. Like, of course that's all that matters - but we were having a debate about a hypothetical because it's a forum where people like to chat shit about cricket and that was the OP people were discussing. You may as well have said - the only thing that happened is what happened. Total f***ing truism.

I think Anderson has a decent record against him on pitches like we've those we've played on. If you serve him up a road like he got last time at Lords, he'll cart Anderson all over the f***ing shop. That's why I said "on nibblers".

I predict he'll be a different Smith when he lines up in Old Trafford. Listened to his interview an hour ago and he is very shaken. I mean, of course he is - he was f***ing concussed, and was so when he gave the interview. But he admitted he'd have to change his helmet against Archer. When players have taken knocks like that before, it has changed their game completely and even ended careers (Jonathan Trott). Not saying that will happen, but I think you are understating how serious what happened yesterday is. It could have killed him - and there's no way he'll be on the pitch at Headingly if there is anything like a proper duty of care shown for him by his team's medical staff. Three weeks in other sports for that - mandatory.

Also think it's fair to say Archer is pretty clearly the fastest bowler in the world. He's statistically the fastest through the air anyway, but with that action I'd say guess he's a fair bit faster than Starc or Wood or Shami off the pitch too. Hence why he conks so many (as well as his angle). So no, I don't think Smith has faced much like that either tbh.
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I said yesterday even before he came back out to bat that Smith could potentially have his entire career changed by that incident. So I’m not misunderstanding anything.

But I don’t think Archer is going to concuss someone routinely. He said yesterday in fact that it was the first time he’s ever hit someone there and his stomach did flip-flops.

Labuschagne played him without bother as well. People will adapt and learn. He got 5-91 in 44 overs which is very good obviously especially on a first appearance . He’s something special. But for all that and the undoubted Fear he caused it didn’t win the match against very average batsmen in favourable, pressures conditions, did it? Smith has won matches under pressure as well as when on top.

Trott didnt retire because of any Knick’s btw, he had a long history of depression and anxiety and says in his biography he thought about suicide in the 2013 series when he was at his peak. On occasions he set the ball practice machine at its highest speed and basically just let it pelt him, he wasn’t bothered about being hit. Alastair Cook said he saw him do it once and that’s how he knew something was up. Trott quit the game because the mentality he had to enter to play it well and the pressure it caused was bad for him.
 
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rentaghost said:
Well why would you say he wishes he could average 7 when he averages 25.19? Admittedly it didn't make sense for Roy either although his average in this series is pretty close to that.
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It was a joke centring around the likelihood that he wouldn’t average 7 if he returned to the team.
SAFC11 said:
Same squad. Understamd it but dont agree with it
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Struggling to think of any changes that we could make tbh. Only real option is to drop denly for a bowler, but that becomes less likely as our bowler stock gets more depleted by the day.
 
Squad selection is fair enough. Personally I think Denly is a poorer batsman than Malan and Vince but not significantly so and there has been little 4 day cricket for others to stake a claim. Same argument with Roy, it’s more in hope than expectation that he gets a meaningful score opening but nobody else has had a chance to really stake a claim.
 
rentaghost said:
Squad selection is fair enough. Personally I think Denly is a poorer batsman than Malan and Vince but not significantly so and there has been little 4 day cricket for others to stake a claim. Same argument with Roy, it’s more in hope than expectation that he gets a meaningful score opening but nobody else has had a chance to really stake a claim.
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I’d move Denly to open and Roy down the order. He’s had a couple of decent little partnerships with Burns so there could be something to build on. He's also been an opener by trade in his career, Roy isn’t working at the top of the order but I still think he’s got to be given a bit more a chance at Test level.

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Roy
Buttler
Bairstow
Woakes
Broad
Archer
Leach
 
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