Honeyman to Hull?

[kildaremackem]

Ross said Honeyman was finding it a ‘lot for him to take’ and that he himself was quite ‘surprised’ before describing the situation as a ‘bump along the way’. That hardly sounds like he was endorsing the sale yet Donald said the ‘management’ were aware of things before he was and it was a ‘football decision’.

With this in mind, who exactly is ‘the management’ and who is making the decisions? It sounds fairly disjointed and potentially even chaotic to me. Are both Ross and Donald just trying to cover their backs by not taking responsibility for such decisions or are they being absolutely genuine with their comments and recruitment decisions are predominantly in the hands of Richard Hill and / or Tony Coton?


There are thickets in all walks of life. It permeates wider society and SAFC is far from immune

The fotball management is a department of the club..just like a finance department. the hr department or any other department simple as that. Richard Hill would be the person who rival clubs send the bids to, not the chairman, that would be very normal (thats what a transfer negotiator is there for and why people with the same job title hill has work at man city and arsenal among other clubs) while the manager would discuss whether he wants the player or could lose him..the structure at safc may be deemed to be failing or succeeding, either view is valid, but what its not is unusual..every club employs a chief scout, and most clubs employ a dof/head of football operatons..SD has stated h personally doesnt make day to day football decisions,,which is how it should be..he dpenst know enough about footbnall to be making them..

 

[molthemackem]

If they are saving close to half half a million by selling him he must be on 9k a week. So canny bit more than a lot of the other players. Not worth that kind of money.

Aye, worked that out last night... and definitely not worth that amount of money.

 

[Deleted member 35923]

The fotball management is a department of the club..just like a finance department. the hr department or any other department simple as that. Richard Hill would be the person who rival clubs send the bids to, not the chairman, that would be very normal (thats what a transfer negotiator is there for and why people with the same job title hill has work at man city and arsenal among other clubs) while the manager would discuss whether he wants the player or could lose him..the structure at safc may be deemed to be failing or succeeding, either view is valid, but what its not is unusual..every club employs a chief scout, and most clubs employ a dof/head of football operatons..SD has stated h personally doesnt make day to day football decisions,,which is how it should be..he dpenst know enough about footbnall to be making them..

Donald has also said that Jack Ross makes the decisions. Ross’s comments RE the Honeyman deal, and some he has made in the past about recruitment, certainly don’t support that.

As an aside and having listened to the podcasts, the Will Grigg deal seemed like it was very much done with Donald heavily involved, as did the Josh Maja contract negotiation and subsequent departure, so does he actually not get involved with day to day footballing decisions at all?

As a further aside....Donald stated that an offer was made by Hull and that the football management were told. That suggests someone received a bid outside the football management ‘department’ as you would refer to it. Does that mean Hill is inside or outside that department?

 

[kildaremackem]

Aye, worked that out last night... and definitely not worth that amount of money.

will be getting more at his new club..playing in a higehr divisns than safc this year..if he makes their team..

 

[North of the Smoke]

He answered a fan who reckoned that the board were selling players

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Imagine getting so worked up about it that you start chucking insults at the owner ffs. Crazy.

If we can turn over the squad at the right time it's totally the correct thing to do. As long as we have a strategy and stick to it.

 

[OohBaldyBally]

Can’t see the tweet anymore but apparently a “fan” has been threatening SD’s family on Twitter because of this.

Then I genuinely hope that someone gets a hold of the little twat.

I saw that SD had said something about someone’s language. It’s disgusting that anyone would do that.

I f***ing hate social media and all of the generation that think that they can say whatever they like on their.

 

[johnnyat87]

will be getting more at his new club..playing in a higehr divisns than safc this year..if he makes their team..

He might well be worth it to them. Unfortunately he isn't what we need so isn't worth that for us at the minute. Hope it works out well for him.

 

[kildaremackem]

Donald has also said that Jack Ross makes the decisions. His comments RE the Honeyman deal, and some he has made in the past about recruitment, certainly don’t support that.

As an aside and having listened to the podcasts, the Will Grigg deal seemed like it was very much done with Donald heavily involved, as did the Josh Maja contract negotiation and subsequent departure, so does he actually not get involved with day to day footballing decisions at all?

richard hill was not in his post in january afaik at that ime..he was then just an adviser to donald.

donalds comments do not indicate ross doenst make the decison..he said the "football department" which is the department ross works for..but..ross doenst do the negotiaing on price..why would he? he wouldnt know how to..again its standard at most clubs to divide the jobs.,a negotiator a scout and a manager..clubs dont send bids to the manager..its stupid..peterborough's manager doenstnegotiate..barry fry does..
spurs manager doesnt negotiate..levy does..man citys manager doesnt negotiate..there head of football operartions does..
what should have happened is, bid arrives in, and gets sent to hill, hill asks JR if he could lose Honeyman, ross says yes...hill negotates on price...both work for the football department..

 

[molthemackem]

will be getting more at his new club..playing in a higehr divisns than safc this year..if he makes their team..

He will disapear down ward mate. Make no mistake.. I've watched him now for over five years and will say this, "Honeyman was given a chance that others were not" Don't for get if I recall correctly , I think it was Moyes who extended his contract to get to this position were are now in.

 

[wrighty]

My point was it's far too early to say how we have recruited. Weve probably barely seen the new players play twice.

I remember this place in January when we were 'going up' after signing Grigg and leadbitter etc. Me included mind, I thought we had a easily strong enough squad. Turned out I was wrong.

Agreed. I did see Dobson at the SOL but you can’t really tell how well a player will do for your team until he’s had a decent run of games and has had time to gel with his team mates. We needed to get more pace and power at the back and more athleticism generally. I think the club has tried to address that and I’m certainly hoping they have. But no one knows how it will play out until the games start.
As for Grigg, he has been disappointing so far. Remember Quinn had a piss poor start to his Sunderland career. Sometimes patience is required.
I’m always optimistic before the season starts:let’s pray this is one of those glorious seasons when the optimism hasn’t been beaten out of me by Xmas

 

[Deleted member 35923]

richard hill was not in his post in january afaik at that ime..he was then just an adviser to donald.

donalds comments do not indicate ross doenst make the decison..he said the "football department" which is the department ross works for..but..ross doenst do the negotiaing on price..why would he? he wouldnt know how to..again its standard at most clubs to divide the jobs.,a negotiator a scout and a manager..clubs dont send bids to the manager..its stupid..peterborough's manager doenstnegotiate..barry fry does..
spurs manager doesnt negotiate..levy does..man citys manager doesnt negotiate..there head of football operartions does..
what should have happened is, bid arrives in, and gets sent to hill, hill asks JR if he could lose Honeyman, ross says yes...hill negotates on price...both work for the football department..

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Are you sure? This article is from August 2018.

 

[kildaremackem]

He will disapear down ward mate. Make no mistake.. I've watched him now for over five years and will say this, "Honeyman was given a chance that others were not" Don't for get if I recall correctly , I think it was Moyes who extended his contract to get to this position were are now in.

but a lot of good experienced managers like honeyman...as well as inedxoerienced ones..
hull are managed by the guy who had doncaster last year..he saw plenty of honeyman..Sheff Utd were interested in Honeyman last year..they all see someting..
I must admit..Honeyman didnt impress in the role he had last year..it didnt work..how much of that was the role he played and how much a reflection of his takent I dont know..

 

[Howard the Duck]

He will disapear down ward mate. Make no mistake.. I've watched him now for over five years and will say this, "Honeyman was given a chance that others were not" Don't for get if I recall correctly , I think it was Moyes who extended his contract to get to this position were are now in.

Are you quoting yourself?!

Also you’ve been saying he’ll disappear down all last season too and he’s just got a move to the Championship.

 

[kildaremackem]

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Are you sure? This article is from August 2018.

and it says he is in charge of netogtaing..which is what should happen..I should have said..not long in post in january..Hill and Donald have known each other for years..that article vinfdicates everything I posted..RH negotiates..Cton Scouuts and Ross picks the players..

Did Donald personally get involved with maja? yes..maybe because it didnt work when HIll was doing it..and Donald thought it might help..did donald phone wigna to negotaie the final bid for grigg? maybe..was that because he had to fund that transfer himself? maybe..

poit is....the article shows the people who work in the football departement...shows it exists and what the roles are..and it seems to be a pretty standard structure tbh..one used by most top clubs..
spurs dot use that structure..and it might mean they lose a top class manager...JR works in the football department..but he doesnt run it, and nor should h, he wouldnt know how to..
a club bidding gor an SAFC player will contact hill, who will ask ross if he wantx the player..if ross says no..Hil;l does the deal..SD isnt involved..frankly 3300k or whatevr we got for honeyman should be too small a deal at this time of year for SD to be bothering with..

 

[Private Gomer Pyle]

he was anattacking player..not a defensive one...is it also mcgeadys fault we conceded lots?

at the mometn embleton can only fdream of being what honeyman is..because honeyman is a cham[po player..and embleton might not even be a starter in league one..though i hpe he is..

Honeyman played a lot of games in a central position during that season especially under Coleman. The system was at fault just as much as the players but my point is people laud that he scored 7 goals in a poor team but he was also part of that poor team who conceded a lot of goals... Everyone was culpable and picking out that he scored 7 goals just grinds on me.

He is a player with limited talent, I must admit I find some of his control at times brilliant, who will find himself a good career playing around the level he is at now and good on him. For where we want to be he should never have been made captain last season even if there were no takers and he was sometimes shoehorned in the side because of this. He is not to blame for us not going up though.

It's a good move for all concerned in my opinion, he gets himself a nice little earner for when he inevitable is either passed around teams around the bottom of the championship or ends up yo yoing between League 1 and 2 clubs, again fair play to him as to play at any level in the english leagues should be commended!

 

[Deleted User 18963]

I think he's a good poster. There is simply no doubt that fans have a 'boo boy'. It has always been thus - fans project all the problems on to an individual and don't see any good in that player even when they play well. This has always been true and is true of all clubs - over the years we have had players like Gordon Armstrong, Billy Jones and last year George Honeyman. This year it will probably be Gooch. It is no disgrace to suggest this, it is true. I'm not having a go at Sunderland fans at all but am suggesting that this is a pretty common phenomena amongst football fans.

Not having someone label fans of our club cowards and chickens like.

Not on.

Also, he isn't balanced. Optimism is fine but sheer blind loyality without being able to debate negatives is not a sign of a good poster.

 

[molthemackem]

Are you quoting yourself?!

Also you’ve been saying he’ll disappear down all last season too and he’s just got a move to the Championship.

I still say it, he has been extremely poor. He has been given the opportunity ,where others far better than him have not, to become a football professional. As I have also said for years, being called a "professional" means absolutely nothing.. You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear ,as the saying goes and that applies to Honeyman.. Some people on here think he is Messi, my preference is Milton Nunez.

 

[sksk3021]

and it says he is in charge of netogtaing..which is what should happen..I should have said..not long in post in january..Hill and Donald have known each other for years..that article vinfdicates everything I posted..RH negotiates..Cton Scouuts and Ross picks the players..

Did Donald personally get involved with maja? yes..maybe because it didnt work when HIll was doing it..and Donald thought it might help..did donald phone wigna to negotaie the final bid for grigg? maybe..was that because he had to fund that transfer himself? maybe..

poit is....the article shows the people who work in the football departement...shows it exists and what the roles are..and it seems to be a pretty standard structure tbh..one used by most top clubs..
spurs dot use that structure..and it might mean they lose a top class manager...JR works in the football department..but he doesnt run it, and nor should h, he wouldnt know how to..
a club bidding gor an SAFC player will contact hill, who will ask ross if he wantx the player..if ross says no..Hil;l does the deal..SD isnt involved..frankly 3300k or whatevr we got for honeyman should be too small a deal at this time of year for SD to be bothering with..

Does Hill know how to do it, not sure what qualifies him to make those kind of decisions.

 

[Deleted member 35923]

and it says he is in charge of netogtaing..which is what should happen..I should have said..not long in post in january..Hill and Donald have known each other for years..that article vinfdicates everything I posted..RH negotiates..Cton Scouuts and Ross picks the players..

Did Donald personally get involved with maja? yes..maybe because it didnt work when HIll was doing it..and Donald thought it might help..did donald phone wigna to negotaie the final bid for grigg? maybe..was that because he had to fund that transfer himself? maybe..

poit is....the article shows the people who work in the football departement...shows it exists and what the roles are..and it seems to be a pretty standard structure tbh..one used by most top clubs..
spurs dot use that structure..and it might mean they lose a top class manager...JR works in the football department..but he doesnt run it, and nor should h, he wouldnt know how to..
a club bidding gor an SAFC player will contact hill, who will ask ross if he wantx the player..if ross says no..Hil;l does the deal..SD isnt involved..frankly 3300k or whatevr we got for honeyman should be too small a deal at this time of year for SD to be bothering with..

No-one had been in their role long by January 2019. The takeover was only six months prior. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest Donald does get involved in the day to day running of the club and Hill was in his role during those negotiations. Your posts are full of contradictions and errors and you continuously shift the goalposts to suit whatever argument is relevant for your argument on that particular day and, quite impressively, even when presented with evidence to highlight you are maybe talking nonsense you will change tact to make it appear you know what you’re talking about. You quite clearly don’t.

 

[DJM]

Then I genuinely hope that someone gets a hold of the little twat.

I saw that SD had said something about someone’s language. It’s disgusting that anyone would do that.

I f***ing hate social media and all of the generation that think that they can say whatever they like on here.

Tidied for you, mate

Not having someone label fans of our club cowards and chickens like.

Not on.

Also, he isn't balanced. Optimism is fine but sheer blind loyality without being able to debate negatives is not a sign of a good poster.

see above