Roker Rapport Podcast: With Stewart Donald (Tues 28th May)

[Mainze]

Ironically an exact echo of what they recognised on the podcast. What more can they do right now than this?

Nothing, they are running a business and need to make a profit by putting bums on seats next season, I have no issues with that. Good luck to them in making the necessary changes.

 

[Beer_Monkey]

Not a fan of them keep going on about the debt. Ellis Short wrote most of it off. So they haven’t got rid of £190 million at all.

Well the deal that they were instrumental in striking helped rid the club of the debt. Who's to say that any other interested parties would have struck the same deal or structured it the way that they have?

 

[Medulla]

Nothing, they are running a business and need to make a profit by putting bums on seats next season, I have no issues with that. Good luck to them in making the necessary changes.

Fair enough, I think we all know that a good start to next season with some decent football is crucial to our chances of going up - the owners seem pretty in tune with the views of the supporters in my view

Don’t know how anyone could listen to that and still be slagging them off. If we continue the progress we’ve made over the last 12 months we’ll be sitting pretty this time next year.

I have issues with one of two things but in the round I find the transparency and inclusion pretty remarkable and something we've started to take a bit for granted. Got a huge amount of time for Donald for his attitude to this and he absolutely deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Gutmackem]

Was very interesting to listen to imo, I'm not sure what some fans want but you're not gonna get an owner any more open & honest than this, to be giving up 3hrs of his time when I'm sure he could be doing a hundred other things, going into talking tactics & individual players isn't a subject he should be drawn on, these are questions for the manager, it's not really difficult to see why some owners just say nowt

 

[sksk3021]

Was very interesting to listen to imo, I'm not sure what some fans want but you're not gonna get an owner any more open & honest than this, to be giving up 3hrs of his time when I'm sure he could be doing a hundred other things, going into talking tactics & individual players isn't a subject he should be drawn on, these are questions for the manager, it's not really difficult to see why some owners just say nowt

It’s absolutely brilliant that he does them imo. They aren’t perfect and everything they say is analysed to the nth degree, something I’m guilty of myself but I do love the fact they are so open and I generally love listening to them.

 

[Medulla]

Enjoyed the podcast, it was entertaining and thank everyone involved in making it, RR, SD etc...

I personally think it is great having an owner prepared to do these types of things and I can't say enough good about him for the little things he does for the fans. He appears to really care for people and it's very encouraging that he is so protective about his integrity.

However, it really highlights the lack of planning, creativity and ambition of thought in my opinion.

The podcast whilst entertaining and the interviewer represented some of the fans' frustrations it only really clarified that they are frustrated and the financial points to an extent.

Methven contradicted himself in regards to "everything geared towards next season" and "building a foundation on sand". He spoke well about his marketing analytics, that is obviously his lane and Id prefer he stuck in it rather than speaking football platitudes, lest we forget the "Dortmund model" that meant nothing of the sort.

Donald on the planning front appears desperately short on ideas. Every club has a glass ceiling and those that he has been involved in prior, it would be fine to focus entirely on getting the best 11 on the field you can and that's that. Not so much here.

He didn't make what should have been the obvious connection between analytics and the scouting department and instead spoke about team performance analytics. He is happy that we have more than 1 scout, that's great but what exactly makes the scouting department better than the rest of the league? Is it the infrastructure that we possess? Has the person you have entrusted to pick how many and which people to be scouts shown an excellent track record of signings? Is he the best-qualified in the league etc? Does he study how better operators in the past have done good work?

Speaking on the academy, it's clear that the majority's perception of players just being able to leave is not correct, they're in fact tied to their terms and dates. He only spoke of two who were leaving for Liverpool, said that they wanted to leave, we wanted them to stay and said as much but it was pushed by their parents. We had one of those parents on here saying the opposite. It's impossible to know the truth but someone is being a bit economical with the truth. Either way, to speak of the kids in a disparaging way like "little Jonny" is not quite right to me. These "kids" are potentially multi-million-pound assets and shouldn't be belittled.

On a similar note to what could be perceived as a hard-line stance, I'm not sure the gravity of Maja and Taylor situation is taken fully on board. To expect footballers to be fair and jump at the chance of playing somewhere that they won't be looked after (ego massaged) is in Taylors words slightly "amateurish". Footballers come with different personality's, you will have people excited to come to the club and some that need a little convincing. Its the clubs job to judge where and how much to be flexible, the negotiating team failed on both players, costing the club millions in assets and replacing. Mistakes are fine, but as Charlie mentioned, learn from them, next time you have identified someone, do the maths rather than quibble on what's right.

I like Stewart, I don't doubt his heart is in the right place and I love the fact that he is so open about things, it gives me the chance to whine about them. I just wish he had a bit more ambition of thought rather than doing what he perceives the fans want.

Some interesting points. I thought he rather missed the point on the Lyle Taylor issue TBH, he responded as if it was about the money and I don't think that was really it. Galling perhaps but like you say sometimes you need to massage the egos of the better players.

 

[Splurty]

The question about Grigg seemed more of a dig at the recruitment policy. Why sign a player that doesn't fit into the squad at all - a constant failure so far from Ross, Hill, Coton etc.

Why sign three centre backs of similar qualities? Flanagan, Dunne, Baldwin (lightweight, gangly etc). Why sign McGeouch, Leadbitter and Power? Add some variation to the signings to create a cohesive midfield, not a carbon-copy midfield. The recruitment just comes across as a scatter-gun approach, without any real comprehension of a master plan, or how each player will compliment another. Which stems back to the Grigg deal - have they really thought about how he'll work with the team? Or have they just been short-sighted and saw goals on his CV and think that'll plug a gap?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Why on earth the Grigg/Ross angle was pursued for so long when the owner of the club can hardly hang them out to dry was bizarre. Whilst well intentioned, it was a waste of time.

Also, the owner was allowed to ramble on too much with no real forensic questioning on the finances was not the best. If there was a structure to be followed, Donald quickly took over that and did the interview he wanted.

Fair enough it was probably daunting for the pair doing it and hopefully they learn but ultimately these podcasts are only ever going to tell us things from Donalds’s perspective as the minute he gets really pushed it will be culled. Ultimately RR is his mouthpiece.

To be fair, the interviewers aren't remotely qualified to do that. For what it's worth, I understood it without much difficulty (despite Stewart's efforts to make it more complicated than it really is), and it's very much in line with what I got from the accounts.

 

[martinlumley]

Some interesting points. I thought he rather missed the point on the Lyle Taylor issue TBH, he responded as if it was about the money and I don't think that was really it. Galling perhaps but like you say sometimes you need to massage the egos of the better players.

if there's one ego in football that doesn't need any further massaging it's Lyle Taylors.

 

[cooky]

The question about Grigg seemed more of a dig at the recruitment policy. Why sign a player that doesn't fit into the squad at all - a constant failure so far from Ross, Hill, Coton etc.

Why sign three centre backs of similar qualities? Flanagan, Dunne, Baldwin (lightweight, gangly etc). Why sign McGeouch, Leadbitter and Power? Add some variation to the signings to create a cohesive midfield, not a carbon-copy midfield. The recruitment just comes across as a scatter-gun approach, without any real comprehension of a master plan, or how each player will compliment another. Which stems back to the Grigg deal - have they really thought about how he'll work with the team? Or have they just been short-sighted and saw goals on his CV and think that'll plug a gap?

This is pretty much my exact feelings to a tee. Sign good players for this level but no coherent plan of how they will be used or fit our system. Case in point being Grigg, how can we be targeting him or Marquis when they are totally different players. Surely we identify a position that requires certain attributes and plays a certain way and then have a list of options. As opposed to this lad has scored goals in League 1 so lets go for it irrespective of his style of play etc.

 

[splorty]

Enjoyed the podcast, it was entertaining and thank everyone involved in making it, RR, SD etc...

I personally think it is great having an owner prepared to do these types of things and I can't say enough good about him for the little things he does for the fans. He appears to really care for people and it's very encouraging that he is so protective about his integrity.

However, it really highlights the lack of planning, creativity and ambition of thought in my opinion.

The podcast whilst entertaining and the interviewer represented some of the fans' frustrations it only really clarified that they are frustrated and the financial points to an extent.

Methven contradicted himself in regards to "everything geared towards next season" and "building a foundation on sand". He spoke well about his marketing analytics, that is obviously his lane and Id prefer he stuck in it rather than speaking football platitudes, lest we forget the "Dortmund model" that meant nothing of the sort.

Donald on the planning front appears desperately short on ideas. Every club has a glass ceiling and those that he has been involved in prior, it would be fine to focus entirely on getting the best 11 on the field you can and that's that. Not so much here.

He didn't make what should have been the obvious connection between analytics and the scouting department and instead spoke about team performance analytics. He is happy that we have more than 1 scout, that's great but what exactly makes the scouting department better than the rest of the league? Is it the infrastructure that we possess? Has the person you have entrusted to pick how many and which people to be scouts shown an excellent track record of signings? Is he the best-qualified in the league etc? Does he study how better operators in the past have done good work?

Speaking on the academy, it's clear that the majority's perception of players just being able to leave is not correct, they're in fact tied to their terms and dates. He only spoke of two who were leaving for Liverpool, said that they wanted to leave, we wanted them to stay and said as much but it was pushed by their parents. We had one of those parents on here saying the opposite. It's impossible to know the truth but someone is being a bit economical with the truth. Either way, to speak of the kids in a disparaging way like "little Jonny" is not quite right to me. These "kids" are potentially multi-million-pound assets and shouldn't be belittled.

On a similar note to what could be perceived as a hard-line stance, I'm not sure the gravity of Maja and Taylor situation is taken fully on board. To expect footballers to be fair and jump at the chance of playing somewhere that they won't be looked after (ego massaged) is in Taylors words slightly "amateurish". Footballers come with different personality's, you will have people excited to come to the club and some that need a little convincing. Its the clubs job to judge where and how much to be flexible, the negotiating team failed on both players, costing the club millions in assets and replacing. Mistakes are fine, but as Charlie mentioned, learn from them, next time you have identified someone, do the maths rather than quibble on what's right.

I like Stewart, I don't doubt his heart is in the right place and I love the fact that he is so open about things, it gives me the chance to whine about them. I just wish he had a bit more ambition of thought rather than doing what he perceives the fans want.

Don’t agree. Thought they came across fantastically well and if went into much more detail then the podcast would be 5 hours long.

To me, the club in once again in safe hands. It’s encouraging that they speak to people with the club at heart like Niall and Bob Murray. After feeling so dejected after the weekend it made me think there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I have no doubt either that the plan will be to play very attacking football next year.

HWTL.

if there's one ego in football that doesn't need any further massaging it's Lyle Taylors.

Reckon he’s a bit of a know and maybe dodged s bullet. Good player but other issues. He chose to effectively run us down but the real reason he went to Charlton was so he can live at home and his Mam wash his kegs.

 

[Medulla]

if there's one ego in football that doesn't need any further massaging it's Lyle Taylors.

Mmmm OK, but that's a luxury position to take

 

[BumbleBee]

This is pretty much my exact feelings to a tee. Sign good players for this level but no coherent plan of how they will be used or fit our system. Case in point being Grigg, how can we be targeting him or Marquis when they are totally different players. Surely we identify a position that requires certain attributes and plays a certain way and then have a list of options. As opposed to this lad has scored goals in League 1 so lets go for it irrespective of his style of play etc.

Very good point. I think that should be on the list of questions for the next RAWA meeting @Ghandi Floss.

 

[parsonjohn1985]

To be fair, the interviewers aren't remotely qualified to do that. For what it's worth, I understood it without much difficulty (despite Stewart's efforts to make it more complicated than it really is), and it's very much in line with what I got from the accounts.

You not fancy being the interviewer sometime then?

 

[Invictus]

Enjoyed the podcast, it was entertaining and thank everyone involved in making it, RR, SD etc...

I personally think it is great having an owner prepared to do these types of things and I can't say enough good about him for the little things he does for the fans. He appears to really care for people and it's very encouraging that he is so protective about his integrity.

However, it really highlights the lack of planning, creativity and ambition of thought in my opinion.

The podcast whilst entertaining and the interviewer represented some of the fans' frustrations it only really clarified that they are frustrated and the financial points to an extent.

Methven contradicted himself in regards to "everything geared towards next season" and "building a foundation on sand". He spoke well about his marketing analytics, that is obviously his lane and Id prefer he stuck in it rather than speaking football platitudes, lest we forget the "Dortmund model" that meant nothing of the sort.

Donald on the planning front appears desperately short on ideas. Every club has a glass ceiling and those that he has been involved in prior, it would be fine to focus entirely on getting the best 11 on the field you can and that's that. Not so much here.

He didn't make what should have been the obvious connection between analytics and the scouting department and instead spoke about team performance analytics. He is happy that we have more than 1 scout, that's great but what exactly makes the scouting department better than the rest of the league? Is it the infrastructure that we possess? Has the person you have entrusted to pick how many and which people to be scouts shown an excellent track record of signings? Is he the best-qualified in the league etc? Does he study how better operators in the past have done good work?

Speaking on the academy, it's clear that the majority's perception of players just being able to leave is not correct, they're in fact tied to their terms and dates. He only spoke of two who were leaving for Liverpool, said that they wanted to leave, we wanted them to stay and said as much but it was pushed by their parents. We had one of those parents on here saying the opposite. It's impossible to know the truth but someone is being a bit economical with the truth. Either way, to speak of the kids in a disparaging way like "little Jonny" is not quite right to me. These "kids" are potentially multi-million-pound assets and shouldn't be belittled.

On a similar note to what could be perceived as a hard-line stance, I'm not sure the gravity of Maja and Taylor situation is taken fully on board. To expect footballers to be fair and jump at the chance of playing somewhere that they won't be looked after (ego massaged) is in Taylors words slightly "amateurish". Footballers come with different personality's, you will have people excited to come to the club and some that need a little convincing. Its the clubs job to judge where and how much to be flexible, the negotiating team failed on both players, costing the club millions in assets and replacing. Mistakes are fine, but as Charlie mentioned, learn from them, next time you have identified someone, do the maths rather than quibble on what's right.

I like Stewart, I don't doubt his heart is in the right place and I love the fact that he is so open about things, it gives me the chance to whine about them. I just wish he had a bit more ambition of thought rather than doing what he perceives the fans want.

I get what you are saying about the link between analytics and scouting. It’s obviously important but I don’t think it’s something the chairman needs to know the ins and outs of. If you employ the right people in those roles ( something Short failed at in almost all departments) then they will direct the club in the right direction.
The Chairman doesn’t need to be a master of all aspects of the running of the club.

 

[Safc88]

This is pretty much my exact feelings to a tee. Sign good players for this level but no coherent plan of how they will be used or fit our system. Case in point being Grigg, how can we be targeting him or Marquis when they are totally different players. Surely we identify a position that requires certain attributes and plays a certain way and then have a list of options. As opposed to this lad has scored goals in League 1 so lets go for it irrespective of his style of play etc.

It was absolute mass panic deadline day just bid for any league 1 striker with a decent scoring record.

 

[Coeus]

I get what you are saying about the link between analytics and scouting. It’s obviously important but I don’t think it’s something the chairman needs to know the ins and outs of. If you employ the right people in those roles ( something Short failed at in almost all departments) then they will direct the club in the right direction.
The Chairman doesn’t need to be a master of all aspects of the running of the club.

I completely agree, I just think he would have some sort of knowledge or even be aware of it. Do you think TC and co are using analytics to find better players than other teams available for less money or something a bit more old school?

Don’t agree. Thought they came across fantastically well and if went into much more detail then the podcast would be 5 hours long.

To me, the club in once again in safe hands. It’s encouraging that they speak to people with the club at heart like Niall and Bob Murray. After feeling so dejected after the weekend it made me think there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I have no doubt either that the plan will be to play very attacking football next year.

HWTL.


Reckon he’s a bit of a know and maybe dodged s bullet. Good player but other issues. He chose to effectively run us down but the real reason he went to Charlton was so he can live at home and his Mam wash his kegs.

That's fine, all about opinions. It's just when you say things like "100 point season" & "Man City don't have to spend twice what Liverpool do" the obvious line of questioning to me is how are we going to do that? As it stands, it's just saying our intentions are to be mint and we won't make excuses if we're not.

I'd far rather hear how they are going to excel in areas they are responsible for like remits, philosophy, infrastructure and so on than labouring the point about Grigg not fitting into the system.

 

[Invictus]

I completely agree, I just think he would have some sort of knowledge or even be aware of it. Do you think TC and co are using analytics to find better players than other teams available for less money or something a bit more old school?

I think it’s probably a combination of both. Coton will have contacts who will point him towards certain players, then they will look at the stats for them and vice versa, where the stats will point towards certain players and Coton will do a bit of networking to find out what the individual is like from his contacts.
Data doesn’t tell you everything about players such as their attitude etc, which we have found out to our cost in the past!

 

[Splurty]

Very good point. I think that should be on the list of questions for the next RAWA meeting @Ghandi Floss.

Half the issue though. If you ask the majority of Sunderland fan base what the team is lacking, i’d suggest over 75% would say pace, physicality and some athleticism. Hell, if you could go back in time and ask them this, this time last year, they’d say the same thing. Stewart Donald even said it was obvious the team lacked physicality In the summer and “we’ll get it” in one of the first podcasts. Two transfer windows later, we haven’t signed one midfielder over 6ft - is Aiden McGeady our tallest midfielder? Nor have we signed one midfielder with any real mobility. We have literally no one with any pace, bar an injured Watmore and teenager who can’t control a football - Kimpioka. It’s basic requirements of modern day football - yet the recruitment team and Jack seemingly can’t see the glaringly obvious?

 

[Invictus]

Half the issue though. If you ask the majority of Sunderland fan base what the team is lacking, i’d suggest over 75% would say pace, physicality and some athleticism. Hell, if you could go back in time and ask them this, this time last year, they’d say the same thing. Stewart Donald even said it was obvious the team lacked physicality In the summer and “we’ll get it” in one of the first podcasts. Two transfer windows later, we haven’t signed one midfielder over 6ft - is Aiden McGeady our tallest midfielder? Nor have we signed one midfielder with any real mobility. We have literally no one with any pace, bar an injured Watmore and teenager who can’t control a football - Kimpioka. It’s basic requirements of modern day football - yet the recruitment team and Jack seemingly can’t see the glaring obvious?

Realistically I think we just got bodies through the door in the summer. I think it was telling that Donald said we got players in who had been in promotion teams but it didn’t quite work out for us.
Again in January I think Maja leaving, and all those goals going with him, created a bit of panic which led to Grigg.