Gammon-Watch: Jamesons , Sunderland - Thu 6th Dec

[mad cyril]

I couldn't care less about the leave campaign, I had decided I wanted to leave the EU long before the referendum.

So you are preaching to the wrong person.

I had legitimate reasons for voting leave and I would have the same legitimate reasons if I could vote leave again tomorrow,

Your opinions and pro EU agenda will never change that.

Can I ask what legitimate reasons are ? Not judging or wanting to argue, just genuinely interested as to what they may be.

 

[Purrfect South]

Getting there....in parts

It's in installments.

 

[mad cyril]

Let's cut to the chase here, most who voted leave won't give a fuck as it was all about immigration. Not saying that's wrong mind, if that was their concern fair enough. But the economy won't make a difference as we were told of this before we went to vote.

Which is why im convinced that if given another referendum tomorrow, leave would still win. Anti immigration won the vote and nobody who voted leave would have changed their mind on this.

 

[Purrfect South]

Can I ask what legitimate reasons are ? Not judging or wanting to argue, just genuinely interested as to what they may be.

It's like talking to climate change deniers, and flat earthers.

 

[Aituk7]

They would be interfering, and causing scandals. If you think he gets stick now, it is nothing compared to what he'd face if he was PM. Never underestimate the power of the money men. They're busy influencing everything that goes on all over the world. They're no more transparent than those faceless EU ones, that you feel so strongly about. You've just been fed a line by the other money men that are moving in for their power grab.

I haven't been fed a line from anyone. I like democracy, I despise unnecessary bureaucracy.

It's like talking to climate change deniers, and flat earthers.

Eh? No offence but it was you who was spouting off about a conspiratorial elite at the top playing each side off against each other.

There's plenty of legitimate and factual reasons to be in favour of both sides.

 

[Purrfect South]

I haven't been fed a line from anyone. I like democracy, I despise unnecessary bureaucracy.


Eh? No offence but it was you who was spouting off about a conspiratorial elite at the top playing each side off against each other.

There's plenty of legitimate and factual reasons to be in favour of both sides.

yeh, right

 

[Deleted member 25315]

Which is why im convinced that if given another referendum tomorrow, leave would still win. Anti immigration won the vote and nobody who voted leave would have changed their mind on this.

Immigration wasn’t the main reason- taking back control was.

 

[SR5 1SU]

Can I ask what legitimate reasons are ? Not judging or wanting to argue, just genuinely interested as to what they may be.

Of course, I've gone over it many times previously but it mainly boils down to democracy. I don't like the EU Parliament or the way the EU is structured with its unelected presidents at the helm.

I have heard the opinions of remainers on these issues countless times and none of them have changed my position on the EU.

 

[dangermows]

Which is why im convinced that if given another referendum tomorrow, leave would still win. Anti immigration won the vote and nobody who voted leave would have changed their mind on this.

There shouldn't be another vote but I think Remain would win as I think many were complacent/arrogant and didn't bother voting, underestimating the appetite for leaving and how much immigration was bothering people.

Immigration wasn’t the main reason- taking back control of our borders was

Tidied.

Do you think if the leave campaign said "we will take back control but leave ummigration control exactly as it is" they'd have pleased those wanting out? Answer honestly, remembering the posters showing queues of migrants (who were nowt to do with EU rules and regs ironically).

 

[mad cyril]

Of course, I've gone over it many times previously but it mainly boils down to democracy. I don't like the EU Parliament or the way the EU is structured with its unelected presidents at the helm.

I have heard the opinions of remainers on these issues countless times and none of them have changed my position on the EU.

Cheers.

 

[dangermows]

Of course, I've gone over it many times previously but it mainly boils down to democracy. I don't like the EU Parliament or the way the EU is structured with its unelected presidents at the helm.

I have heard the opinions of remainers on these issues countless times and none of them have changed my position on the EU.

Fair point.

 

[mad cyril]

There shouldn't be another vote but I think Remain would win as I think many were complacent/arrogant and didn't bother voting, underestimating the appetite for leaving and how much immigration was bothering people

I’d like to think there could be another vote but it won’t happen and like I say I regrettably think leave would still win again..
No matter how much it was debated or proven otherwise, Little England would still believes we’d stop foreigners coming in and send back the ones already here. The jingoistic attitude is too strong to change people’s minds.

 

[Deleted member 25315]

There shouldn't be another vote but I think Remain would win as I think many were complacent/arrogant and didn't bother voting, underestimating the appetite for leaving and how much immigration was bothering people.



Tidied.

Do you think if the leave campaign said "we will take back control but leave ummigration control exactly as it is" they'd have pleased those wanting out? Answer honestly, remembering the posters showing queues of migrants (who were nowt to do with EU rules and regs ironically).

I've provided a fact, mentioned many times on here- immigration was high on people's reasons to leave, it wasn't the main reason.

 

[Aituk7]

Of course, I've gone over it many times previously but it mainly boils down to democracy. I don't like the EU Parliament or the way the EU is structured with its unelected presidents at the helm.

I have heard the opinions of remainers on these issues countless times and none of them have changed my position on the EU.

Not to mention the amount of remainers that say they want to stay in a reformed EU.

We've tried it.. it doesn't work. It's designed from the ground up so it can't be reformed.

And yet they act like we're the irrational ones

 

[dangermows]

Looking forward to seeing the details of the proposal. If its got the EU lot happy then I can't see it being much of a change tbh. Unless we have just agreed to take a shifting?

I've provided a fact, mentioned many times on here- immigration was high on people's reasons to leave, it wasn't the main reason.

What was the main reason? Taking back control was all about immigration in reality. In fact immigration and the NHS are the only two things the leave campaign ever mentioned. Again those, those two things are very legitimate issues.

I’d like to think there could be another vote but it won’t happen and like I say I regrettably think leave would still win again..
No matter how much it was debated or proven otherwise, Little England would still believes we’d stop foreigners coming in and send back the ones already here. The jingoistic attitude is too strong to change people’s minds.

That's never going to happen though. Mind, a points system like Australia I am completely in favour of. That and obviously taking in our share of asylum seekers (which again is nothing to do with the EU).

 

[WHD]

It's like talking to climate change deniers, and flat earthers.

It's like discussing evolution with a creationist. No matter what evidence is produced, it gets ignored.

Of course, I've gone over it many times previously but it mainly boils down to democracy. I don't like the EU Parliament or the way the EU is structured with its unelected presidents at the helm.

I have heard the opinions of remainers on these issues countless times and none of them have changed my position on the EU.

Does any of that have an effect on your day to day life?

 

[Hep]

How higher would his IQ be if he spent 5 years working in the real world and had 5 more years of life experience learning on a job? Basically going from an inexperienced kid of 18 to a man of 23.

Research would suggest it would be lower than if he had gone to university and spent more time in education.

This university of life stuff is a bit cringeworthy tbh.

 

[Hair Flick]

Research would suggest it would be lower than if he had gone to university and spent more time in education.

This university of life stuff is a bit cringeworthy tbh.

Yeah but research by those who went to university so it’s bound to be biased innit?

 

[Deleted member 25315]

I’d like to think there could be another vote but it won’t happen and like I say I regrettably think leave would still win again..
No matter how much it was debated or proven otherwise, Little England would still believes we’d stop foreigners coming in and send back the ones already here. The jingoistic attitude is too strong to change people’s minds.

Prime example of why you can't have a reasoned debate on immigration without being accused of being a 'little Englander' 'racist' 'daily mail reading xenophobe'
A completely false narrative spread by remainers. This country has seen unprecedented numbers come into the country over the past 15, 20 years, mostly without Incident. Overwhelmingly, Immigrants have been made welcome into this country wherever they reside. It is not the case that this country is overran by jack boot wearing fascists threatening to inflict violence on immigrants and chuck them out. The cmparrisons with Nazi Germany and present day Britain are the most ridiculous on here. Most people want a sensible immigration policy as opposed to open door policy and if you ask citizens throughout the EU you'll find the exact same opinions.

What was the main reason? Taking back control was all about immigration in reality. In fact immigration and the NHS are the only two things the leave campaign ever mentioned. Again those, those two things are very legitimate issues.

Taking back control is not just about immigration- the ecj, trade, ultimately it was about our democracy and sovereignty.

 

[Hep]

Yeah but research by those who went to university so it’s bound to be biased innit?

No, there are systems in place to scrutinise research, nothing is just accepted as fact.

Prime example of why you can't have a reasoned debate on immigration without being accused of being a 'little Englander' 'racist' 'daily mail reading xenophobe'
A completely false narrative spread by remainers. This country has seen unprecedented numbers come into the country over the past 15, 20 years, mostly without Incident. Overwhelmingly, Immigrants have been made welcome into this country wherever they reside. It is not the case that this country is overran by jack boot wearing fascists threatening to inflict violence on immigrants and chuck them out. The cmparrisons with Nazi Germany and present day Britain are the most ridiculous on here. Most people want a sensible immigration policy as opposed to open door policy and if you ask citizens throughout the EU you'll find the exact same opinions.

Taking back control is not just about immigration- the ecj, trade, ultimately it was about our democracy and sovereignty.

And what don’t we have by being part of the eu?

We have democracy and sovereignty.

The only thing that is in question is being part of a system to try and agree laws and standards on a larger scale.

What is it we can’t do?

Also, on FOM, who is it we don’t want to come?

It comes across that ‘we’ just want to have control for the sake of it.

Personally, I don’t mind where laws are made as long as they are good ones.