Fat Mike Ashley

[royaldragon]

From what I read you couldn't be more wrong but that's the narrative pushed by the media by those too lazy to read under the headlines.

He's not wrong though is he? You might not want to spend that big, but only yesterday my Nufc supporting (and season ticket holder) workmate was planning on spending at least 60m in January and that was only the beginning of the spending with the vast bulk of money spent in the summer.

They were bankrupt when he bought them, they couldn't sustain European football because they aren't big enough.

There might be hope for us yet, it shows a club can be turned around as Newcastle as a club was only recently in a right sorry state.

 

[The Fish]

I think being "fortunate" with Kane and Alli etc. is an understatement. Kane's the best striker in the league by some distance and on current form one of the best in Europe. They haven't had to pay a penny for him in transfer fees. To compete at that level without him they'd have had to spend £80m+ for a striker as good as him (which they wouldn't do). He's not the only one who's come through in recent years who's made the difference either. That's why I'd love to see our Academy really striving to get some of the best talent in from a young age. It's all well and good having one Pickford and a Henderson every 5 years but we'd need them all to come through together to make it count. They get picked up by other clubs otherwise.

Alli was good scouting to be honest. We were also looking at him when he was at MK Dons (Liverpool too, I think). The important thing Spurs did was nurture his obvious talent. That's something we've failed to do with young lads with potential, be they from our academy, or from somewhere else.

Building a reliable conveyor belt of young talent is key to sustained success imo and just makes good business sense. Instead of spending £7m on some 22yr old French lad, bring your own players up through the ranks, playing the way you want, who're invested in the successes of the club and will cost significantly less.

You see that thing about the three North East clubs having a gentlemans agreement not to try and poach young players from each other's academy/youth setup?

 

[Lewberry pie]

Alli was good scouting to be honest. We were also looking at him when he was at MK Dons (Liverpool too, I think). The important thing Spurs did was nurture his obvious talent. That's something we've failed to do with young lads with potential, be they from our academy, or from somewhere else.

Building a reliable conveyor belt of young talent is key to sustained success imo and just makes good business sense. Instead of spending £7m on some 22yr old French lad, bring your own players up through the ranks, playing the way you want, who're invested in the successes of the club and will cost significantly less.

You see that thing about the three North East clubs having a gentlemans agreement not to try and poach young players from each other's academy/youth setup?

Just quoting the bottom bit, is this true like?

 

[Sima]

"Genuine ambition and progress" is an expansive comment. What does ambition look like? How is progress managed/tracked? League position?

Not hawking players at the first attempt, gradually adding and improving the squad over successive transfer windows and moving away from the policy of buying players with primarily a sell-on value in mind, gradually improving league position and improving our cup record

That sort of ambition.

 

[The Fish]

Just quoting the bottom bit, is this true like?

You must be logged on to see external links

A 'no-poaching pact'
We'll start with the "gentleman's agreement" said to have been made by Boro, Newcastle and Sunderland, with

You must be logged on to see external links

that the region's big three have shaken hands on a non-poaching pact where young academy players are concerned.

Journalist Matt Hughes says the agreement is a "marked contrast to the way many academies are run in other areas of the country, where complaints about tapping-up and reporting of alleged breaches in regulations are commonplace".

Described by Hughes as a "unique approach to youth development", he writes: "The north-east accord stems from the clubs' realisation that due to geography they have a limited number of players to pick from and are better served concentrating on developing those already on their books.

"There is competition between them to sign non-registered players, but no players under 18 are induced to switch clubs."

 

[Lewberry pie]

Not hawking players at the first attempt, gradually adding and improving the squad over successive transfer windows and moving away from the policy of buying players with primarily a sell-on value in mind, gradually improving league position and improving our cup record

That sort of ambition.

Aside from the cups which I'd agree with I don't see any other way for you to operate.

 

[Sima]

Aside from the cups which I'd agree with I don't see any other way for you to operate.

So aim for 17th and anything's a bonus, flog our players at the first attempt (players that may have been bought primarily for that purpose instead of greater needs of the playing squad) but improve the cups a bit is our level?

This question is rhetorical I think...

 

[Lewberry pie]

So aim for 17th and anything's a bonus, flog our players at the first attempt (players that may have been bought primarily for that purpose instead of greater needs of the playing squad) but improve the cups a bit is our level?

This question is rhetorical I think...

Not necessarily finish 17th like but I don't know what you expect? To qualify for the champions league? Maybe its possible but highly unlikely

 

[Sima]

Not necessarily finish 17th like but I don't know what you expect? To qualify for the champions league? Maybe its possible but highly unlikely

Absolutely nothing in-between 17th and 4th then? Incredible. Weirdly enough, straight out of Ashley's 'we are not a Man City' mantra from a couple of months back.

Here's a clue Mike, we don't expect to be Man City. You f***ing oaf.

 

[The Fish]

Not necessarily finish 17th like but I don't know what you expect? To qualify for the champions league? Maybe its possible but highly unlikely

Said elsewhere, but Spurs have swollen the top 5 teams to a top 6*. Arsenal and Liverpool aren't close to winning the title, but they're far from teams like West Brom, Southampton, Burnley, West Ham etc.

We could conceivably separate from that pack and instead compete with teams that are gunning for the Europa League spots and hoping another team or two has a bad season to sneak into the CL spots.


* just like Chelsea made it a top 3, Man City a top 4 etc.

 

[Lewberry pie]

Said elsewhere, but Spurs have swollen the top 5 teams to a top 6*. Arsenal and Liverpool aren't close to winning the title, but they're far from teams like West Brom, Southampton, Burnley, West Ham etc.

We could conceivably separate from that pack and instead compete with teams that are gunning for the Europa League spots and hoping another team or two has a bad season to sneak into the CL spots.


* just like Chelsea made it a top 3, Man City a top 4 etc.

Well if you look at the teams you're looking to compete with, Southampton, Everton etc, they all sell to buy but what they do well is recruitment and are brave enough to not buy when they think a young lad is capable of playing for the first team, aside from the youth at Newcastle if you look at Graham Carr and what mike Ashley was trying to do it's basically the same thing, it just wasn't as successful as them, we can't all just sell our players to Liverpool like Southampton do.

Absolutely nothing in-between 17th and 4th then? Incredible. Weirdly enough, straight out of Ashley's 'we are not a Man City' mantra from a couple of months back.

Here's a clue Mike, we don't expect to be Man City. You f***ing oaf.

Not sure what ya saying like, obviously there's a difference but for me as a football fan they're all the same thing. Who cares if you finish 8th, it's all the same shit.

I very much doubt Ashley ever wanted to finish 17th every year

 

[The Fish]

Well if you look at the teams you're looking to compete with, Southampton, Everton etc, they all sell to buy but what they do well is recruitment and are brave enough to not buy when they think a young lad is capable of playing for the first team, aside from the youth at Newcastle if you look at Graham Carr and what mike Ashley was trying to do it's basically the same thing, it just wasn't as successful as them, we can't all just sell our players to Liverpool like Southampton do.

It's similar, but Southampton and Everton were recruiting competently with at least one eye on the league, Ashley and Carr were recruiting with both eyes firmly on the resale value. They sold to buy, we bought to sell. that kind of transfer policy risks fostering a transitory feel in the dressing room, "why should I bust a gut, I'm off to Arsenal next summer", and that mercenary mentality was key to both our relegations.

Not sure what ya saying like, obviously there's a difference but for me as a football fan they're all the same thing. Who cares if you finish 8th, it's all the same shit.

I very much doubt Ashley ever wanted to finish 17th every year

Huge difference between pushing for a European spot but falling short, and getting to 40pts and downing tools.

Ashley didn't want to finish 17th, he just didn't care where we finished as long as we remained in the top flight.

 

[Lewberry pie]

It's similar, but Southampton and Everton were recruiting competently with at least one eye on the league, Ashley and Carr were recruiting with both eyes firmly on the resale value. They sold to buy, we bought to sell. that kind of transfer policy risks fostering a transitory feel in the dressing room, "why should I bust a gut, I'm off to Arsenal next summer", and that mercenary mentality was key to both our relegations.



Huge difference between pushing for a European spot but falling short, and getting to 40pts and downing tools.

Ashley didn't want to finish 17th, he just didn't care where we finished as long as we remained in the top flight.

I think that's just subjective judgement on the fact he bastardised the stadium name and did stupid things like employ kinnear.

 

[WildTurkey]

Despite the deluded mags saying otherwise he's actually improved a lot of things and has them in a much better financial situation.

I must be one of the non deluded ones

 

[Sima]

Not sure what ya saying like, obviously there's a difference but for me as a football fan they're all the same thing. Who cares if you finish 8th, it's all the same shit.

I very much doubt Ashley ever wanted to finish 17th every year

Do you find it odd that there is so much discussion and fond remembrance of Reid's two high place finishes when ultimately in your mind it was the 'same shit'?

 

[The Fish]

I think that's just subjective judgement on the fact he bastardised the stadium name and did stupid things like employ kinnear.

It's more than that though. Look at our transfers, up until Benitez (and arguably Maclaren), few if any of them made much sense at the time, or in hindsight.

We bought to sell, that was the policy.

 

[Lewberry pie]

Do you find it odd that there is so much discussion and fond remembrance of Reid's two high place finishes when ultimately in your mind it was the 'same shit'?

We were top of the league at one point, and we'd only just got promoted so it was an absolutely unreal time for everyone, just the same as it was for yous in the Keegan era, finishing 7th was great but it also counted for nothing, we didn't get into Europe and we didn't win anything.

It's more than that though. Look at our transfers, up until Benitez (and arguably Maclaren), few if any of them made much sense at the time, or in hindsight.

We bought to sell, that was the policy.

That will always be the policy, that's Southampton's policy they just do it better.

 

[The Fish]

That will always be the policy, that's Southampton's policy they just do it better.

They don't buy to sell, they sell to buy. they buy players to improve their lot on the pitch, to climb the league as best they can. But, if a big club comes in for Lovren or Lallama they will let them go because they know they've got someone lined up to replace them, and if they don't, they won't let the player go Van Dijk, e.g.

Ashley would have sold Shearer were he in charge and received a large enough bid, regardless of whether we had a world class striker lined up or not. If Benitez wasn't the man in the manager's office I've no doubt we wouldn't have had the backing we did for the Championship season, nor this one.

 

[Deleted member 6830]

Hey, I'm under no illusions that the 12 year span from 92 to 04 was a blip in our history. Apart from the Edwardian team of the early 1900s that won 3 league titles and the 1927 league champions, generally in our history we've been a mid table or bottom half team, and also had 40 odd years in the second division.
But to say he's the best thing to ever happen to the club is just wrong. Ashley's reign of terror has been massively misrepresented as being good when it's been dull, depressing and divisive among the support. A real zombie like existence just treading water being used as a player trading post collecting tv cash, balancing the books whilst the club and ground is used as an advertising hoarding for his emporium of shite.

Got to say I agree with you on this.
Won't make a habit of it mind

 

[The Bridge Lad]

Well if you look at the teams you're looking to compete with, Southampton, Everton etc, they all sell to buy but what they do well is recruitment and are brave enough to not buy when they think a young lad is capable of playing for the first team, aside from the youth at Newcastle if you look at Graham Carr and what mike Ashley was trying to do it's basically the same thing, it just wasn't as successful as them, we can't all just sell our players to Liverpool like Southampton do.


Not sure what ya saying like, obviously there's a difference but for me as a football fan they're all the same thing. Who cares if you finish 8th, it's all the same shit.

I very much doubt Ashley ever wanted to finish 17th every year

I think there's a huge difference to be honest. I'd much rather try and at least be the best that you can be, or the best of the rest if you like, even if that was 'just' finishing 7th or 8th and ultimately no Europe. I'd far rather finish 7th like what West Ham did in 2016 with a +14 goal difference (so you're winning a lot of games comfortably) and have the mindset of e.g. Bournemouth fans being like 'hmmm, home to West Ham today, tough game, I'd probably take a point to be honest' rather than them saying 'West Ham at home, if we are going to be stay up then we need to be beating dross like this', or in Newcastle's case, teams like Stoke, West Brom etc. being very pleased if they return home from St James' with a point rather than seeing it as 2 points dropped to potential relegation fodder.