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Ipswich v Scum

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hexhamali said:
By failing to make the grade at premier league level.
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That's ignoring the myriad factors that can lead to a player being relegated and is deliberately ambiguous about what exactly constitutes "making the grade". Because, this way, you can say Player X who takes the field for Newcastle is a failure, but Player Y who takes the field for Sunderland is not.

C- Must try harder ;)
 
The Fish said:
That's ignoring the myriad factors that can lead to a player being relegated and is deliberately ambiguous about what exactly constitutes "making the grade". Because, this way, you can say Player X who takes the field for Newcastle is a failure, but Player Y who takes the field for Sunderland is not.

C- Must try harder ;)
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I don't mean because they got relegated with Newcastle, I mean because they genuinely don't have enough for the premier league. If we take shelvey as an example, he has proven time and time again that he doesn't have the physicality and movement to play in a premier league midfield, it's embarrassing watching him let midfield players run past him without tracking them (almost an identical player to Darren Gibson or Tom Huddlestone). Dwight Gayle just doesn't score enough goals in the top league, I don't really know enough about his style of play to suggest why but if imagine it's a similar story to most strikers that bang them in in the championship, he gets more space and has more time to take the many chances that come his way. I can't remember who else was on the list.
 
The Fish said:
I don't have you on ignore, I just choose to ignore the overwhelming majority of your posts because they're mostly boring.

You seem to be operating under the common misconception that if a player plies his trade in the league y, that's his level, not league x, or league z. Shelvey is patently too good for this league and is obviously a decent bottom half of the Premier League player. If you hold onto Pickford and he plays in the Championship is he immediately not good enough for the Premier League? Don't be silly.

We come again to the crux of each of our interactions; you don't like Newcastle United. That's fine, I and everyone else are firmly aware of that. Just say "FTM!! MAGS STINK!" or whatever, instead of bothering to type out other ridiculous things. Save yourself all the bother.
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8 assists and 5 goals really isn't that spectacular for someone who's too good for the championship compare him to someone like Conor Hourihane 7 goals and 14 assists
 
hexhamali said:
I don't mean because they got relegated with Newcastle, I mean because they genuinely don't have enough for the premier league. If we take shelvey as an example, he has proven time and time again that he doesn't have the physicality and movement to play in a premier league midfield, it's embarrassing watching him let midfield players run past him without tracking them (almost an identical player to Darren Gibson or Tom Huddlestone). Dwight Gayle just doesn't score enough goals in the top league, I don't really know enough about his style of play to suggest why but if imagine it's a similar story to most strikers that bang them in in the championship, he gets more space and has more time to take the many chances that come his way. I can't remember who else was on the list.
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I think you can argue gayle either way, now he has had a season scoring a lot and playing weekly he might have improved his game and confidence- Holloway, Warnock, Pulis, Pardew are a mixed bunch, style wise, Benitez may have improved him.

4 palace managers didn't rate him ( bearing in mind they have had chamack, connor W, adebayor in that time as well) , possibly because they prefer 1 up top and he isn't suited to that-.

Dick and Sam were loathe to play Defoe on his own for a good while , and there is no doubting his quality or pedigree, but a struggling club will always likely need to pack the midfield to try and scrape points in the prem so it makes it harder for a little guy hardly seeing the ball- both he and gayle would probably thrive on a targetman partner, but ours has been injured all season and Benitez

prica's crown said:
I think you can argue gayle either way, now he has had a season scoring a lot and playing weekly he might have improved his game and confidence- Holloway, Warnock, Pulis, Pardew are a mixed bunch, style wise, Benitez may have improved him.

4 palace managers didn't rate him ( bearing in mind they have had chamack, connor W, adebayor in that time as well) , possibly because they prefer 1 up top and he isn't suited to that-.

Dick and Sam were loathe to play Defoe on his own for a good while , and there is no doubting his quality or pedigree, but a struggling club will always likely need to pack the midfield to try and scrape points in the prem so it makes it harder for a little guy hardly seeing the ball- both he and gayle would probably thrive on a targetman partner, but ours has been injured all season and Benitez
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doesn't like mitrovic
 
hexhamali said:
I don't mean because they got relegated with Newcastle, I mean because they genuinely don't have enough for the premier league. If we take shelvey as an example, he has proven time and time again that he doesn't have the physicality and movement to play in a premier league midfield, it's embarrassing watching him let midfield players run past him without tracking them (almost an identical player to Darren Gibson or Tom Huddlestone). Dwight Gayle just doesn't score enough goals in the top league, I don't really know enough about his style of play to suggest why but if imagine it's a similar story to most strikers that bang them in in the championship, he gets more space and has more time to take the many chances that come his way. I can't remember who else was on the list.
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The criticism of Gayle is harsh given he's not really had a lot of game time in the top flight. I've watched him plenty this season and can say that he's got that knack of finding the right space in the box. He's no Harry Kane, but then, who is? He's good for 10-15 goals in the top flight.

Shelvey hasn't been guilty of watching games go by him this year, a year when his ability means he'd be able to stroll thruogh most games should he choose.

I think you're being overly-harsh, you probably think I'm overly positive about them. But at least you've actually thought about your position and backed it up with a decent argument.

Bear said:
8 assists and 5 goals really isn't that spectacular for someone who's too good for the championship compare him to someone like Conor Hourihane 7 goals and 14 assists
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Hourihane has been fantastic this year (until he moved to Villa to be honest).
 
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The Fish said:
The criticism of Gayle is harsh given he's not really had a lot of game time in the top flight. I've watched him plenty this season and can say that he's got that knack of finding the right space in the box. He's no Harry Kane, but then, who is? He's good for 10-15 goals in the top flight.

Shelvey hasn't been guilty of watching games go by him this year, a year when his ability means he'd be able to stroll thruogh most games should he choose.

I think you're being overly-harsh, you probably think I'm overly positive about them. But at least you've actually thought about your position and backed it up with a decent argument.


Hourihane has been fantastic this year (until he moved to Villa to be honest).
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Is he ? He's never been good for 10/15 goals before but he is now. He won't be coming up against sides like Rotherham and Burton to find that space next season
 
Bear said:
Is he ? He's never been good for 10/15 goals before but he is now. He won't be coming up against sides like Rotherham and Burton to find that space next season
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He'll be playing games this time though. Before he joined Newcastle, do you know how many minutes he played in a league season on average? 912, or just about 10 games a season. In that time he was scoring once every 2-3 games (2.21 GpG on average). Average that out over a 38 game season and that's 17 goals, now, take into account injuries and what not and I think it's reasonable to predict 10-15 goals, don't you?

Oh, those are Premier League goals, by the way.
 
The Fish said:
He'll be playing games this time though. Before he joined Newcastle, do you know how many minutes he played in a league season on average? 912, or just about 10 games a season. In that time he was scoring once every 2-3 games (2.21 GpG on average). Average that out over a 38 game season and that's 17 goals, now, take into account injuries and what not and I think it's reasonable to predict 10-15 goals, don't you?

Oh, those are Premier League goals, by the way.
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Remember Le Fondre ?

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Bear said:
Remember Le Fondre ?

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I do, he was a decent bet for last goalscorer when he was in the lower leagues.

The difference is, when Le Fondre was in the 2nd tier, his goal tally didn't improve whereas Gayle's hit rate dropped from 1 goal every c200minutes, to 1 goal every 97 minutes. Which is better. Twice as good, in fact.

So;
Didn't get a lot of game time in the top flight, still had a 1-in-3 rate
Dropped to 2nd tier, now has a 1/1 rate
I'm predicting that rate will slide back to original and he'll be good for 10-15 across a season.

What exactly are you arguing about Bear? Are you trying to let me know you don't like Newcastle again? I know you don't.

dangermows said:
Shelvey was shite last season. Decent this. Can't work out why...
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B:cool:nitez
 
The Fish said:
I do, he was a decent bet for last goalscorer when he was in the lower leagues.

The difference is, when Le Fondre was in the 2nd tier, his goal tally didn't improve whereas Gayle's hit rate dropped from 1 goal every c200minutes, to 1 goal every 97 minutes. Which is better. Twice as good, in fact.

So;
Didn't get a lot of game time in the top flight, still had a 1-in-3 rate
Dropped to 2nd tier, now has a 1/1 rate
I'm predicting that rate will slide back to original and he'll be good for 10-15 across a season.

What exactly are you arguing about Bear? Are you trying to let me know you don't like Newcastle again? I know you don't.


B:cool:nitez
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Forgot Rafa wasn't there last season :lol:
 
Confucius said:
you meanwhile in your short time on our message board, have interacted on.


1) The Chinese buying Sunderland (two seperate threads)
2) Southampton v Sunderland match thread
3) The chronicle having a go at Sunderland
4) Sam Allardyce for Sunderland thread
5) Defoe and Anichebe in Newcastle
6) Short will pull the trigger at Bournemouth
7) Sunderlands debt
8) Sunderlands win at Bournemouth
9) How we will fare against Man City
10) The weekend fixtures that affect Sunderland
11) Bain confirms no funds for January
12) M'Vila
13) Pickford
14) Anichebe's record
15) Adam Johnson appeal
16) David Moyes and his signings
17) SAFC V West Ham
18) Moyes threatens female reporter
19) Liam Kennedy still writing for the echo
20) Defoe can leave for nothing
21) Sunderlands impending relegation in the "Gone" thread
22) The Steven Taylor hating Sunderland thread

Not bad considering there are 100 posts, now what were you saying about the centre of the universe?
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ooof ya fecker

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