This'll be the Torygrapgh barred in Liverpool

[elder]

isn't it that although liverpool fc may commemorate the tragedy of heysel they have distanced themselves from the part played by their supporters on that night. in fact isn't that the whole point of the original article (and not just liverpool but the authorities and even the juve celebrations after the game)...?

it seems fairly valid that overall heysel is remembered or recognised as a tragedy but everyone distances or absolves themselves from blame or complicity.

 

[Wayne The Punk]

What a complete **** that man is. f***ing shocking comments, hope his house gets repossessed.

Phil Neal, what a f***ing horrible bastard he is

 

[cosmicchris00]

Excellent article. I always found Phil Neal's comments in this article revealing about what kind of man he is.

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There are some tragic accounts of that terrible night in this incredibly powerful article which, I'm not ashamed to admit, moved me to tears

It evokes memories of a different era - bizarrely, extradition issues with a European country - as well as the savagery of a minority and the sickening incompetence of the authorities.

My father worked in Belgium around this time and I can still recall one of his comments about the Belgian police; "they'll have been hiding around some corner having a smoke".

There still needs to be some closure for the families.

 

[WalkerSAFC]

A Sunderland supporting mate, from Nottingham, went to Heysel with some Liverpool supporters who had a spare ticket.

Since that day he despises Liverpool and refuses to watch them even if they play Sunderland, not even on TV.

He said he was totally disgusted by many of the Liverpool supporters and that their behaviour before during & after the game was atrocious. They were openly looting shops, walking away from bars without paying bills & boasting about gaining entry without tickets. They had picked fights with locals & Juve supporters and my mate, who's just a really nice daft lad, was frightened that he'd be caught up in it.
He's not a good person to pick an argument with, if you try defending Liverpool, he was appalled at the difference between the behaviour, in the city, between the English & Italians.

I was in France, at that time, near the Italian border and it wasn't a good time to be English, you kept your head down.
That wasn't hard, it was hanging down in shame ... this was broadcast on French television and I'll never forget it.

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Forgive me if I'm wrong/naive here as I weren't even born back then, but was that behavior not pretty much normal of football fans away on tour back then?

 

[box2box]

Phil Neal, what a f***ing horrible bastard he is

Odd comments from phil neal. I wonder if hillsborough victims families are proud of a former captain seeking money from tradegies

 

[not spavin]

You're waffling and suggesting I'm on drugs to smokescreen your attempt to avoid the facts.

It's pitiful even by your low standards.

As you're 'drug free' and obviously see yourself as the voice of reason please show me, in the official LFC website where they accept any responsibility.

"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final.
The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

LFC wasn't responsible. Some of their fans were. Most were prosecuted.

You do understand that, don't you?

isn't it that although liverpool fc may commemorate the tragedy of heysel they have distanced themselves from the part played by their supporters on that night. in fact isn't that the whole point of the original article (and not just liverpool but the authorities and even the juve celebrations after the game)...?

it seems fairly valid that overall heysel is remembered or recognised as a tragedy but everyone distances or absolves themselves from blame or complicity.

The deaths were caused by fan violence, compounded by mistakes made by officials. Officials and fans were prosecuted.

There's no conspiracy.

Liverpool FC make a bigger deal about Heysel than Juventus do.

What do you want? For Liverpool FC in 2015 to say that they - the club - caused the Heysel deaths?

 

[hank williams]

LFC wasn't responsible. Some of their fans were. Most were prosecuted.

You do understand that, don't you?



The deaths were caused by fan violence, compounded by mistakes made by officials. Officials and fans were prosecuted.

There's no conspiracy.

Liverpool FC make a bigger deal about Heysel than Juventus do.

What do you want? For Liverpool FC in 2015 to say that they - the club - caused the Heysel deaths?

Who caused the fan violence resulting in the deaths

 

[not spavin]

Who caused the fan violence resulting in the deaths

The fans?

Liverpool have repeatedly linked their club to the tragedy and paid tribute to the dead. Genuinely don't know what people are criticises them for.

 

[elder]

The deaths were caused by fan violence, compounded by mistakes made by officials. Officials and fans were prosecuted.

There's no conspiracy.

Liverpool FC make a bigger deal about Heysel than Juventus do.

What do you want? For Liverpool FC in 2015 to say that they - the club - caused the Heysel deaths?

i never said there was... i also never said the club caused any deaths. i agree with the article that heysel is remembered as a tragedy but no one seems to want to acknowledge what that was, how it happened or who was to blame.

 

[WalkerSAFC]

You're waffling and suggesting I'm on drugs to smokescreen your attempt to avoid the facts.

It's pitiful even by your low standards.

As you're 'drug free' and obviously see yourself as the voice of reason please show me, in the official LFC website where they accept any responsibility.

"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final.
The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

Show me where they deny any responsibility? it's a memorial they're hardly just going to say it was caused by their fans

 

[not spavin]

i never said there was... i also never said the club caused any deaths. i agree with the article that heysel is remembered as a tragedy but no one seems to want to acknowledge what that was, how it happened or who was to blame.

Hooligans caused it, they were convicted, and England was banned from Europe.

What aspect hasn't been acknowledged?

 

[Reiver]

Show me where they deny any responsibility?

My point is that they don't accept, or even acknowledge, any responsibility which you can't deny.

it's a memorial they're hardly just going to say it was caused by their fans

It's not a memorial, I'm quoting the only mention of the incident on the LFC website.
It comes across as an unavoidable tragedy where various fans 'lost their lives' ....... they didn't lose their lives, they were killed.

"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final. The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

LFC wasn't responsible. Some of their fans were. Most were prosecuted.

You do understand that, don't you?

Of course I understand it, that wasn't the point I was making.

Why, have I said anything to suggest the players or officials were involved?

Forgive me if I'm wrong/naive here as I weren't even born back then, but was that behavior not pretty much normal of football fans away on tour back then?

No, you're wrong.

 

[elder]

Hooligans caused it, they were convicted, and England was banned from Europe.

What aspect hasn't been acknowledged?

the first bit by LFC which again is the gist of the article, which i've already said i agree with.

"But Heysel was an unspeakable subject for years. The club contributed to a sense of denial when John Smith, the then chairman, suggested two National Front members had been responsible."

that quote is from the independent, which is another article on the subject i agree with.

 

[WalkerSAFC]

It's not a memorial, I'm quoting the only mention of the incident on the LFC website.
It comes across as an unavoidable tragedy where various fans 'lost their lives' ....... they didn't lose their lives, they were killed.

"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final. The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

They did tragically lose their lives, I'm not sure what your point is here. So anytime liverpool mention heysel they have to mention it was their fans fault otherwise Theyre trying to shift blame?

 

[Cosmos Rocks]

The memorial on the club's official site is an example of the club washing its hands of Heysel.





So they people who died at Hillsborough deserved it?

Did not say that but what goes around comes around.

isn't it that although liverpool fc may commemorate the tragedy of heysel they have distanced themselves from the part played by their supporters on that night. in fact isn't that the whole point of the original article (and not just liverpool but the authorities and even the juve celebrations after the game)...?

it seems fairly valid that overall heysel is remembered or recognised as a tragedy but everyone distances or absolves themselves from blame or complicity.

Its never the Scousers fault.

 

[LT2K]

Pinched from the other thread but the Phil Neal comments in this article really do some him up as a person.

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What an odious twat

 

[Reiver]

They did tragically lose their lives, I'm not sure what your point is here. So anytime liverpool mention heysel they have to mention it was their fans fault otherwise Theyre trying to shift blame?

For whatever reason you're completely ignoring what I've said twice.

I'm not talking about 'any time', I'm speaking quite specifically about the official LFC website where it hardly gets a mention.

If you still choose to ignore the point then I'm afraid, I can't help you ... I can't spend time explaining it over and over.

Yes the people 'lost their lives' but they lost them because some Liverpool supporters killed them.

They were convicted and imprisoned for manslaughter.

 

[KarenDent]

What an odious twat

Bet he didn't think that would be printed

 

[humbug]

LFC wasn't responsible. Some of their fans were. Most were prosecuted.

You do understand that, don't you?



The deaths were caused by fan violence, compounded by mistakes made by officials. Officials and fans were prosecuted.

There's no conspiracy.

Liverpool FC make a bigger deal about Heysel than Juventus do.

What do you want? For Liverpool FC in 2015 to say that they - the club - caused the Heysel deaths?

this is very true.
as for mistakes being made by officials, if it wasn't for the actions of their fans then it wouldn't be an issue.
the root cause of heysel lies with the fans.
the reason normal, decent football fans are treat like shite even nowadays is down to the mindless idiots in the past.

 

[rentaghost]

Forgive me if I'm wrong/naive here as I weren't even born back then, but was that behavior not pretty much normal of football fans away on tour back then?

Despite what someone else posted below yes it was. Fans rioting or charging towards each other inside or outside grounds happened thousands of times with all clubs involved. You just have to read about some of the away trips on here to understand that. On this occasion there was tragic consequences.