Why does Short get so much hate off the fans?

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Arcane Jesh said:
Buying shares and providing loans is not gifting money.

Doesn't matter. I don't even know wbat the original point was now.
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Give it up and go the sleep. You been on here for 12 hours solid, had your ears boxed by amongst others our resident accountant and you're still carrying on like a fool.
 


GipseT said:
eh? I said it could be, where does the rent go to? and minimizing the loss at least....



Do you know where the high interest lone pays to? Any way messing up and then trying to minimize his own losses with little regard for the club does not sound like a good chairman to me.
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It goes to SBC, the American financial institution it was borrowed from.
 
PitYacker said:
The one thing I think people should agree on is that Short is not a great philanthropist pumping hundreds of millions of his own cash into the club. Shares are worth money. The reason the club was not sold recently was due to the offer not matching what Short wanted for those shares. If we get the debt down by default that would mean the only money Short had left to recoup would be for his shares. If by some chance we get promoted that would mean Short could make a healthy profit selling. How much would a premier league club the size of Sunderland with little debt be worth? It's got to over 100m. Especially now the tv money is over 100m a season.
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If he achieves that he deserves a profit tbh. The club he bought was a financial basket case.
 
Fact Hunt said:
Give it up and go the sleep. You been on here for 12 hours solid, had your ears boxed by amongst others our resident accountant and you're still carrying on like a fool.
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The only conclusion that I can draw is that he thinks that any money coming in should have been unconditionally gifted, never to be seen again by the giver. I'm not sure the word "investor" has been clearly understood.
 
Dagzd1973 said:
Yup, nothing to do with the players or manager being shite and only here for the money. It's all Short's fault for hiring Keith Lemon as DoF for 1 year donkeys ago and hiring Byrne the pedo defending bitch. If it wasn't for those two and Bain we'd be Champions League by now man! :p

Blame Short for what he did do, but you can't blame him for us being shite. We spent 56 million last year and 30 this year gone, money HE pulled from HIS own pocket. That's 86 million in two years, and what did we get? Relegated.
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£110 million in debt? Lot of talk about the money that Short has put in but it seems to me that there apperas to be a lot of debt more than him spunking his cash.
 
Bagpuss said:
£110 million in debt? Lot of talk about the money that Short has put in but it seems to me that there apperas to be a lot of debt more than him spunking his cash.
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I haven't looked at the accounts and have no idea how the debt is structured but we've spent 150 million on player transfer fees in the past 5 years alone. Add 20-30m a year wages, adds upto 300m spent on players fees and wages in the past 5 years. After subtracting tv/PL revenue from that I'm not sure how much is left, but as @Grumpy Old Man said, he (Short) gets paid nothing for being Chairman/Owner so the money must have gone somewhere. I'm sure it's all there in black and white for the administrators to see.

I started this thread not giving a toss about Ellis, but after learning a bit more and seeing some of the posts on here I feel obliged to defend the Billionaire twat.

17 million for Ndong? Haway man. That was Moyes' fuckup, not Ellis'. If Moyes had bought 2 or 3 decent players with that instead of spunking it on one we'd have been a lot better off. Ndong is no better than Catts imo. What a waste. Cheers for that, Dave.
 
I'm totally confused by Short's intentions at the moment, 4-5 days ago I was against him for the total confusion about the future of the club, now we're told he cares about the future and won't sell to anyone who don't meet his criteria ( ie stump up the necessary cash ) but equally we know he wants out. It would be nice if he gave an interview to someone and just made his intentions clear but that's the training of a hedge funder/assett stripper whatever he is, to have that "smoke and mirrors".

Shame it hadn't been Bob Murray with all that loot at his disposal and yes, I know he made mistakes, but at least we knew for sure he had the club's interests firmly up front.
 
Fact Hunt said:
Give it up and go the sleep. You been on here for 12 hours solid, had your ears boxed by amongst others our resident accountant and you're still carrying on like a fool.
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Drunken tit. Saturday night pisshead anger. The best kind of anger.

Fwiw. I was having a discussion with someone and the 'resident accountant' waded in with something irrelevant.

Grumpy Old Man said:
The only conclusion that I can draw is that he thinks that any money coming in should have been unconditionally gifted, never to be seen again by the giver. I'm not sure the word "investor" has been clearly understood.
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When did I say any of this? Do you do this regularly? Butt in on conversations with some fun finance facts?

I haven't even passed comment on the form of investment Short has made yet you were still putting words in my mouth at midnight last night!

Rambling away dribbling on about something no one is talking about.
 
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PitYacker said:
The one thing I think people should agree on is that Short is not a great philanthropist pumping hundreds of millions of his own cash into the club. Shares are worth money. The reason the club was not sold recently was due to the offer not matching what Short wanted for those shares. If we get the debt down by default that would mean the only money Short had left to recoup would be for his shares. If by some chance we get promoted that would mean Short could make a healthy profit selling. How much would a premier league club the size of Sunderland with little debt be worth? It's got to over 100m. Especially now the tv money is over 100m a season.
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So why then would he provide a piss poor amount of transfer money last season, especially at key moments,if staying up was good for his financial position ? Well as you've stated Ellis can possibly see this is the best opportunity to get himself his money back or a profit. It's evident that staying up wasn't his priority. People on here talking business seem to forget that although there is a business entity the club is really us fans. We were shit on last year as our owner played monopoly as he didn't really -comparing his spending to other smaller clubs who stayed up - prioritise us staying in the premier league. If there is an increased debt it is because his high turnover of terrible mistakes cost us and therefore he should lose the price on his shares. Not all investments are successful and Ellis Short has made a mess of this one.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
The only conclusion that I can draw is that he thinks that any money coming in should have been unconditionally gifted, never to be seen again by the giver. I'm not sure the word "investor" has been clearly understood.
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:lol::rolleyes::lol:
 
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Dagzd1973 said:
17 million for Ndong? Haway man. That was Moyes' fuckup, not Ellis'. If Moyes had bought 2 or 3 decent players with that instead of spunking it on one we'd have been a lot better off. Ndong is no better than Catts imo. What a waste. Cheers for that, Dave.
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Point of note. Ndong is nearly 10 years young than Lee Cattermole and was coveted by a host of clubs across Europe.
 
sir rowell cummins said:
So why then would he provide a piss poor amount of transfer money last season, especially at key moments,if staying up was good for his financial position ? Well as you've stated Ellis can possibly see this is the best opportunity to get himself his money back or a profit. It's evident that staying up wasn't his priority. People on here talking business seem to forget that although there is a business entity the club is really us fans. We were shit on last year as our owner played monopoly as he didn't really -comparing his spending to other smaller clubs who stayed up - prioritise us staying in the premier league. If there is an increased debt it is because his high turnover of terrible mistakes cost us and therefore he should lose the price on his shares. Not all investments are successful and Ellis Short has made a mess of this one.
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I'm not arguing with that, in fact I'm more in agreement with you, his mistakes have cost us. What I'm saying is Short has not been bank rolling us out of the goodness of his heart. Some people on here think he just gives the club money and expects nothing in return. I'm not sure whether he planned us to be relegated but now we are I'm sure he has a plan that he thinks will be more lucrative for him than selling.

The Cabbage said:
If he achieves that he deserves a profit tbh. The club he bought was a financial basket case.
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I don't think anyone cares if he makes us a successful club and profits from it. What I care about is the fact than some people think he shouldn't lose money if he makes us an unsuccessful one. Investments can go down as well as up ;)
 
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PitYacker said:
I'm not arguing with that, in fact I'm more in agreement with you, his mistakes have cost us. What I'm saying is Short has not been bank rolling us out of the goodness of his heart. Some people on here think he just gives the club money and expects nothing in return. I'm not sure whether he planned us to be relegated but now we are I'm sure he has a plan that he thinks will be more lucrative for him than selling.


I don't think anyone cares if he makes us a successful club and profits from it. What I care about is the fact than some people think he shouldn't lose money if he makes us an unsuccessful one. Investments can go down as well as up ;)
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This is precisely what I was trying to say before I got rounded on by some odd fan club and an accountant of some sort.
 
PitYacker said:
I'm not arguing with that, in fact I'm more in agreement with you, his mistakes have cost us. What I'm saying is Short has not been bank rolling us out of the goodness of his heart. Some people on here think he just gives the club money and expects nothing in return. I'm not sure whether he planned us to be relegated but now we are I'm sure he has a plan that he thinks will be more lucrative for him than selling.


I don't think anyone cares if he makes us a successful club and profits from it. What I care about is the fact than some people think he shouldn't lose money if he makes us an unsuccessful one. Investments can go down as well as up ;)
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I fully agree with you.
 
Arcane Jesh said:
Point of note. Ndong is nearly 10 years young than Lee Cattermole and was coveted by a host of clubs across Europe.
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Anar, tbf to Ndong he looked decent in some games. Bur shirley we could have spent a bit less and got the same type of player. 17m is a lot for 1 guy considering we had half the team out injured and we were in a relegatation dogfight. Personally I think they (FC Lorient) had our eyes out because of how we handled the Kone deal the season before.
 
Dagzd1973 said:
Anar, tbf to Ndong he looked decent in some games. Bur shirley we could have spent a bit less and got the same type of player. 17m is a lot for 1 guy considering we had half the team out injured and we were in a relegatation dogfight. Personally I think they (FC Lorient) had our eyes out because of how we handled the Kone deal the season before.
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Yeh but actually I think Lorient haven't seen much money from either deal yet and they gave us extended credit on both.

Add a % on top? Lorient got relegated last season and their fans are kicking off that they didn't invest the Ndong and Kone cash but its likely they haven't had much yet.

Though am assuming they could have bought based on future income? Not sure.
 
Arcane Jesh said:
Yeh but actually I think Lorient haven't seen much money from either deal yet and they gave us extended credit on both.

Add a % on top? Lorient got relegated last season and their fans are kicking off that they didn't invest the Ndong and Kone cash but its likely they haven't had much yet.

Though am assuming they could have bought based on future income? Not sure.
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They can take the fuckers back if they want. Give us our 22 million quid back :evil:
 
It might be because it's been a bit like Goodfellas; bring a succession of players through the front door and sell for next to nothing out the back door?

All that's left for him to do is light a match?
 
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