What to do with Iran

[Boz33]

you'll get no argument from me on how we've sold our soul for cheap plastic tat. it needs undoing.

They've been well educated and the thing that is important, IMO anyway, is that there are people in Iran with a living memory of how it was prior to the mad mullahs. Once they're dead the change back will be harder.

The shah was no angel like, but he did embrace a lot more western traits where people were generally freer…that’s not to mean he wasn’t a dictator too, with all the trappings that come with that, just more palatable to the west.

 

[The]

You're joking...right?

Why would you say that otherwise?

Look it up and educate yersel

Google is your friend here

Wrong.

Zionism has been a disaster for Arabs but especially Palestine.

The foaming at the mouth nut jobs currently advocating finishing off the indigenous population of the land stolen by zionists have great PR and are backed by the US military.

It's a f***ing scandal

zionism is just wanting a homeland for jews in the place they're from. you can argue how they got about their business but surely not that they should have a right to live where they're from and have had a continued presence for 4000 years?

 

[Pants]

Isolationism doesn't work in a globally connected world. As we've seen in Ukraine, what happens in far off lands directly affects us here.

It's rather fanciful to think that we could have a safe and prosperous country while ignoring everything that is happening around the world.

^This, unfortunately.

'Interfering' certainly brings its own problems but 'staying out of it' is just inviting the end of any kind of freedom or democracy. There are ideologies who want to wipe us from the face of the earth. Every victory for them makes them stronger and brings them closer to obtaining the means to do so.

 

[Boz33]

Iran is a fantastic country of history, science and culture and has huge potential as a stable country which engages with the rest of the world. Trouble is that it is ruled by a very small number of the "Mad Mullahs" and their devotees while the vast majority of the population - and every Iranian I've ever worked with or met - have been nothing other than peaceful and hospitable.

Thing is you get rid of the mullahs and all the arseholes, they then become that countries terrorists. Religion is a terrible thing because whichever side of the fence your on, your version of god is on your side.
And let’s be clear here whoever is in charge of Muslim countries tends to be a murdering arsehole whether there are elections or not, just seems to be the way in a lot of cases

 

[The]

The shah was no angel like, but he did embrace a lot more western traits where people were generally freer…that’s not to mean he wasn’t a dictator too, with all the trappings that come with that, just more palatable to the west.

they've had it the same way in the Middle East for 1400 years at least. democracy is only really a new thing for us in Europe, other than the greek and to some extent the romans

 

[MonkeyLove]

if a 2 state solution can't work, we could just leave it as it is I suppose.

The alternative to a two state solution is a one secular state where Muslims would be in the majority (As there are fractionally more between the Jordan Valley and the Med and they have a higher birth rate).

Either that or you have to outright support ethnic clensing or apartheid as there would be no other way to a Jewish one state solution.

For Iran we should leave them. Wars in the Middle East are devastatingly expensive, run for decades and inevitably even if they are partly successful something else equally as bad or worse pops up in its place.

For those advocating for regime change in Iran let’s hope it’s before Iran complete the final steps on their nuclear programme. I’m not sure an extremist religious theocracy who have made it their life’s work to destroy Israel are the sort of people you want to simultaneously have nukes and be backed into a corner.

Thing is you get rid of the mullahs and all the arseholes, they then become that countries terrorists. Religion is a terrible thing because whichever side of the fence your on, your version of god is on your side.
And let’s be clear here whoever is in charge of Muslim countries tends to be a murdering arsehole whether there are elections or not, just seems to be the way in a lot of cases

There is a small window where the mullahs could still be opposed. Once Iran cross the nuclear threshold the West will be clamouring for stability there not an uprising

 

[Boz33]

The alternative to a two state solution is a one secular state where Muslims would be in the majority (As there are fractionally more between the Jordan Valley and the Med and they have a higher birth rate).

Either that or you have to outright support ethnic clensing or apartheid as there would be no other way to a Jewish one state solution.

For Iran we should leave them. Wars in the Middle East are devastatingly expensive, run for decades and inevitably even if they are partly successful something else equally as bad or worse pops up in its place.

For those advocating for regime change in Iran let’s hope it’s before Iran complete the final steps on their nuclear programme. I’m not sure an extremist religious theocracy who have made it their life’s work to destroy Israel are the sort of people you want to simultaneously have nukes and be backed into a corner.


There is a small window where the mullahs could still be opposed. Once Iran cross the nuclear threshold the West will be clamouring for stability there not an uprising

Mullahs aren’t gonna be crossed anytime soon, they’ve done well creating a society shit scared of secret police and a wider network of terrorist proxies that will cause havoc in the wider region and further afield as they throw their tentacles and grow influence into other weak countrys like Lebanon, Yemen and Iraq and with the Palestinians thru hamas
Saddam was a murdering arsehole but then blair and co with the septics decided they didn’t like him anymore so opened the doors right up for Iran when in reality he kept the region on a bit more of an even keel, one murdering arsehole fighting against another murdering arsehole

 

[cosmicchris00]

zionism is just wanting a homeland for jews in the place they're from. you can argue how they got about their business but surely not that they should have a right to live where they're from and have had a continued presence for 4000 years?

The problem isn't the peaceful jewish residents of Palestine.

The problem is the manipulative war mongers who began plotting to take Palestine for themselves and have then enacted that plan with help and financial assistance of the Western powers.

Yeah, those zionists

 

[MonkeyLove]

Mullahs aren’t gonna be crossed anytime soon, they’ve done well creating a society shit scared of secret police and a wider network of terrorist proxies that will cause havoc in the wider region and further afield as they throw their tentacles and grow influence into other weak countrys like Lebanon, Yemen and Iraq and with the Palestinians thru hamas
Saddam was a murdering arsehole but then blair and co with the septics decided they didn’t like him anymore so opened the doors right up for Iran when in reality he kept the region on a bit more of an even keel, one murdering arsehole fighting against another murdering arsehole

Iraq used to provide a power balance under Saddam your right. In the same way that MBS also keeps a degree of power balance but is also ruthless with little regard for human life (Look at Yemen).

Iraq is now equally dangerous with a large number of military factions inc the 250,000 under Iranian influence in the PMF. But it’s not a cohesive power so agree it doesn’t offset Iran. The West effectively helped Iran annex Iraq.

 

[Boz33]

Iraq used to provide a power balance under Saddam your right. In the same way that MBS also keeps a degree of power balance but is also ruthless with little regard for human life (Look at Yemen).

Iraq is now equally dangerous with a large number of military factions inc the 250,000 under Iranian influence in the PMF. But it’s not a cohesive power so agree it doesn’t offset Iran. The West effectively helped Iran annex Iraq.

Well we can thank Blair and co and George w for all the fun and games we had there and afterwards.

 

[Viper]

Don't think anyone sensible wants World War 3, but that doesn't mean it isn't coming down the tracks pretty fast, so taking out their only nuclear reactor again would be a win/win for everyone.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Don't think anyone sensible wants World War 3, but that doesn't mean it isn't coming down the tracks pretty fast, so taking out their only nuclear reactor again would be a win/win for everyone.

If Israel is going to directly attack Iran, then their nuclear facilities are the obvious target.

 

[Boz33]

If Israel is going to directly attack Iran, then their nuclear facilities are the obvious target.

Doubtful that will be the reprisal attack, but taking out some of their drone making capacity would help both themselves and Ukraine

 

[The]

After praying 5-7 times a day, they don't have much time for anything else.

bucking and fighting

 

[MonkeyLove]

Don't think anyone sensible wants World War 3, but that doesn't mean it isn't coming down the tracks pretty fast, so taking out their only nuclear reactor again would be a win/win for everyone.

I think your confusing a nuclear reactor with their nuclear programme.

They only have one nuclear reactor for energy. They have many facilities that we know about where they enrich uranium and many where we probably don’t.

 

[Visiting owl]

After praying 5-7 times a day, they don't have much time for anything else.

Crikey, must play havoc with their joints.

I couldn't convert to Islam because my knees are shot enough as it is.

 

[The]

The problem isn't the peaceful jewish residents of Israel.

The problem is the manipulative war mongers who began plotting to take Palestine for themselves and have then enacted that plan with help and financial assistance of the Western powers.

Yeah, those zionists

Have a look around the region. If Israel didnt have the means to protect itself it would be gone within a decade.

 

[cosmicchris00]

The shah was no angel like, but he did embrace a lot more western traits where people were generally freer…that’s not to mean he wasn’t a dictator too, with all the trappings that come with that, just more palatable to the west.

The Shah was a puppet

We got rid of the legitimate government and installed The Shah as he would do our bidding - or the bidding of the British aristocracy.

The Shah persecuted minorities and generally governed the country so badly that an Islamic cleric found a way to overthrow him

Enter Ayatollah Khomeini

 

[PinzaC55]

 

[Boz33]

The Shah was a puppet

We got rid of the legitimate government and installed The Shah as he would do our bidding - or the bidding of the British aristocracy.

The Shah persecuted minorities and generally governed the country so badly that an Islamic cleric found a way to overthrow him

Enter Ayatollah Khomeini

There’s no argument about the shah being installed with western influence, but having a revolution and installing a mental ayatollah and those that have followed haven’t improved the country or the inhabitants lives.