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VAR.... again


This is going to sound mental but at what point do they decide the ball is being "played"? It takes more than an instant to pass a ball, so is the rule that if the striker is offside at any moment during the prior pass being made then he is offside?

That might explain the difference in the two images?

Edit: Although Udogie's legs look to be in (almost) the same position, so perhaps that isn't what is going on here
 
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RichD said:
The VAR system has so many flaws, in reality it all comes down to which person(s) are watching the screen and they decide at what point of contact which decides if its is or isn't, its a joke...
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It seems to be when the ball is first touched, rather than at any point

The real image looks like the ball is still in contact but leaving the Leeds player's foot, but the VAR image is presumably from when the first contact happened, so perhaps that explains it?
 
Interesting looking Mic'd up programme on sky at 7pm tonight with Howard Webb listening to the VAR audio and footage of West Ham arsenal on Sunday. Could be one of the more watchable ones.
 
robertotmackem said:
If i could change one thing about VAR it would be a decision timer. When it gets to the point where you are drawing lines or watching replays for 2 minutes plus, then its clearly not an obvious error by the ref/lino.

60 seconds max or you go with the on field decision.
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Exactly this.
A clear and obvious error shouldnt take more than a minute.

I did read a suggestion elsewhere that now refs carry cameras, VAR should only get the refs view to make a decision from. That would be interesting
 
ErichZann said:
I thought Calvert Lewin was onside when I saw the replay before var got involved it looked obvious. This West Ham fan nails it
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You've been fooled by some knacker posting the wrong image as that is the frame after the ball has been played. This tweet below is from the match thread last night. This is a TV image not straight on and the camera angle isn't straight across but you can still see DCL's boot ahead the Spurs player. The other thing is that this was Semi-Automated that can use AI as this is Thor'd from last night.

The semi automated stuff did it tonight and it is that clever it can interpolate movement between frames using the motion before and after the frame. It's just the same way TVs can reduce blur by filling in frames.

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The optical tracking system maps the players but also the ball during the entire match. It works at 50 frames per second (1 frame every 0.02 seconds), the same as the offside tech we see in the domestic leagues, but it should be able to identify any change of direction of the ball.

Between the frames, AI is able to interpolate the player and ball movements with the system providing a continuous flow of data.


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woodlebert said:
It seems to be when the ball is first touched, rather than at any point

The real image looks like the ball is still in contact but leaving the Leeds player's foot, but the VAR image is presumably from when the first contact happened, so perhaps that explains it?
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This!
 
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The problem is the act of kicking the ball is not instantaneous. There is a small time frame where the ball is in contact with the foot than often spans over more than one frame. So at that point, which frame should be used? Is it the point the ball first makes contact with the ball, or is it when the ball leaves the foot?

And of course in that time players are still moving often at fast pace. So this can lead to varying results depending on the frame thats used. It's not always clear to tell the point the impact on the ball ends though. Maybe this is another area they need to use technology in the ball to be able to identify the exact point the contact on the ball ends.

Fine fine margins though and not sure it's corruption as the tweet is suggesting
 
We seem to be talking about VAR as if it wasn’t human
Cameras are presenting the play at different angles and professionally qualified refs ie HUMANS, are interpreting it
It’s more refs instead of 1 ref
Refs are human and make mistakes but I suspect most of the uproar is due to innate bias of fans whose team are losing out on some decisions and those who need something to blame
 
Nathan Gunn said:
The problem is the act of kicking the ball is not instantaneous. There is a small time frame where the ball is in contact with the foot than often spans over more than one frame. So at that point, which frame should be used? Is it the point the ball first makes contact with the ball, or is it when the ball leaves the foot?

And of course in that time players are still moving often at fast pace. So this can lead to varying results depending on the frame thats used. It's not always clear to tell the point the impact on the ball ends though. Maybe this is another area they need to use technology in the ball to be able to identify the exact point the contact on the ball ends.

Fine fine margins though and not sure it's corruption as the tweet is suggesting
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It's the first contact
contrarian said:
We seem to be talking about VAR as if it wasn’t human
Cameras are presenting the play at different angles and professionally qualified refs ie HUMANS, are interpreting it
It’s more refs instead of 1 ref
Refs are human and make mistakes but I suspect most of the uproar is due to innate bias of fans whose team are losing out on some decisions and those who need something to blame
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That's kind of the point, no?

For things like goalline stuff, most people seem to accept it's black and white (and automated) so it's fine

For subjective decisions, fouls, you're just adding more fallible humans into the mix
 
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woodlebert said:
This is going to sound mental but at what point do they decide the ball is being "played"? It takes more than an instant to pass a ball, so is the rule that if the striker is offside at any moment during the prior pass being made then he is offside?

That might explain the difference in the two images?

Edit: Although Udogie's legs look to be in (almost) the same position, so perhaps that isn't what is going on here
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This. You can see from that still that the ball has already left his foot
 
mackembhoy said:
This frame by frame clip shows they've completely fucked it

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I saw that and was going to post it but couldn't be arsed to debunk it but now it's here I have 🤣 This is the frame by frame of their clip with Frame 4 at the start and 5 at the end, yet why is 3 frames in their tweet with 1 in between their frame 4 and frame 5?

These are the 3 frames and 1st is their frame 4 and the last is the frame 5 and one in between. In the middle frame you can see the ball is already moving but it still looks like DCL's foot is ahead of the Spurs player.

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JL1985 said:
Apologies, I only saw it once last night. I though it hit his right arm but it's his right shoulder/chest.
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No apologies needed at all 👍 I just thought it was another misleading thing like the ones on Twitter that people hoy up to create debate as it gets them clicks etc like the stuff above.
 
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