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VAR.... again

I different but similarly contentious decision here. I thought it was interesting seeing how this is worked through.

I honestly feel that there would be so much more support for VAR if they just broadcast this footage live.

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Lucky1985 said:
I different but similarly contentious decision here. I thought it was interesting seeing how this is worked through.

I honestly feel that there would be so much more support for VAR if they just broadcast this footage live.

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This is a clear foul.
Hand grabbing the keepers arm..no grab of arm no foul.

Clear as day.
 
hardlife said:
This is a clear foul.
Hand grabbing the keepers arm..no grab of arm no foul.

Clear as day.
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Aye, but then would he be fouling the keeper if he want being fouled by trossard, and also what about rice in the background.

I believe the right decision was made here. But my point was more that if we get to hear what’s being said by the officials, rather than the histrionics of the commentary team who usually don’t even know the rules, and who usually relate everything back to ‘their day’ with a misty eyed blood lust, then we would all have a lot more confidence in the process.
 
Lucky1985 said:
Aye, but then would he be fouling the keeper if he want being fouled by trossard, and also what about rice in the background.

I believe the right decision was made here. But my point was more that if we get to hear what’s being said by the officials, rather than the histrionics of the commentary team who usually don’t even know the rules, and who usually relate everything back to ‘their day’ with a misty eyed blood lust, then we would all have a lot more confidence in the process.
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I have no confidence in the Var ce process, they have too much control now, it needs reducing a lot and the over the top rules reigned in. I don't take a bite of notice to any commentary, I decide on what I see.

A good ref would see this foul anyway.
Just watched the Var ce video...clear as day Why so long to decide? 30 seconds...done.

Everything done by Var ce is OTT.
Just to keep them in jobs.
 
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Lucky1985 said:
I different but similarly contentious decision here. I thought it was interesting seeing how this is worked through.

I honestly feel that there would be so much more support for VAR if they just broadcast this footage live.

You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...
Well that just shows what a load of shite this is. The only person who did something was the AVAR at 3 mins when he said to the main VAR "I don't like Trossard not facing the ball" and then questions it by basically saying "well if you're saying that's a foul on the keeper what about Trossard and also Declan Rice behind?" but VAR seems focused on the keeper foul and not looking at the Trossard foul in detail.

Bearing in mind the ball is in play when kicked and at that point Raya was nowhere near being fouled, yet Trossard was already hanging onto Todibo as you can see here just after the kick with Pablo #19 just to the left of his keeper with Trossard in tow grabbing onto Pablo.

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Given it's been pointed out by the AVAR there's other fouls, why the fuck haven't they been reviewed to see when they started and if it impacted the player? All they end up doing is focusing at the few seconds of the keeper being fouled and they haven't reviewed all the play up until the goal like they should.

When they drag the ref over, after they show him the foul on Raya, they mention the foul by Trossard and Rice but only the brief moment as the Raya foul is going on and the ref sees nowt. They don't show the ref that Trossard had hold of Pablo before the kick. If they'd shown him the clip below he'd see Trossard is clearly seen pulling Pablo's arm while holding Pablo's waist with his other arm and has no intention of playing the ball at all.

The gif below stops when the ball has been kicked so from that frame on the ball is in play yet Pablo is the one who ends up trying to challenge for the ball so it's obvious he's been impacted as you see him jump also but he barely gets off the deck. Given it's the 1st foul of significance this is yet another huge fuck up by VAR in my opinion. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was us on the receiving end when in a relegation battle, or even for Europe.

You have to laugh at the shite Webbs come out with at the end when he says "That one stands out for me, quite clearly, and it happens early in the sequence as well. There's not something else happens much before that stands out either" 🤣

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hardlife said:
I have no confidence in the Var ce process, they have too much control now, it needs reducing a lot and the over the top rules reigned in. I don't take a bite of notice to any commentary, I decide on what I see.

A good ref would see this foul anyway.
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He did. You can hear him say “possible foul on the goalkeeper”, he gave the on field decision as a goal because he wasn’t absolutely certain of the foul, but he said possible foul to signal to the VAR to check.

I think if they were more transparent about the process it would lead to a much greater consensus confidence in it. But as it is, when we just see them looking at the same image over and over again, then you’re left wondering why it’s taking so long when it’s so obvious that the keeper is being fouled. But then when you hear them mic’d up, you can hear that they are checking at other potential fouls also before sending to the ref for a review.

Understanding are VARs thought process when teaching a decision makes it much easier to accept when they dissent with your own if you can at least see how they have come to their conclusion imho.

Leaving them voiceless just creates a vacuum that can be filled with dissent towards the process by players/managers/punditry.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK said:
Well that just shows what a load of shite this is. The only person who did something was the AVAR at 3 mins when he said to the main VAR "I don't like Trossard not facing the ball" and then questions it by basically saying "well if you're saying that's a foul on the keeper what about Trossard and also Declan Rice behind?" but VAR seems focused on the keeper foul and not looking at the Trossard foul in detail.

Bearing in mind the ball is in play when kicked and at that point Raya was nowhere near being fouled, yet Trossard was already hanging onto Todibo as you can see here just after the kick with Pablo #19 just to the left of his keeper with Trossard in tow grabbing onto Pablo.

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Given it's been pointed out by the AVAR there's other fouls, why the fuck haven't they been reviewed to see when they started and if it impacted the player? All they end up doing is focusing at the few seconds of the keeper being fouled and they haven't reviewed all the play up until the goal like they should.

When they drag the ref over, after they show him the foul on Raya, they mention the foul by Trossard and Rice but only the brief moment as the Raya foul is going on and the ref sees nowt. They don't show the ref that Trossard had hold of Pablo before the kick. If they'd shown him the clip below he'd see Trossard is clearly seen pulling Pablo's arm while holding Pablo's waist with his other arm and has no intention of playing the ball at all.

The gif below stops when the ball has been kicked so from that frame on the ball is in play yet Pablo is the one who ends up trying to challenge for the ball so it's obvious he's been impacted as you see him jump also but he barely gets off the deck. Given it's the 1st foul of significance this is yet another huge fuck up by VAR in my opinion. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was us on the receiving end when in a relegation battle, or even for Europe.

You have to laugh at the shite Webbs come out with at the end when he says "That one stands out for me, quite clearly, and it happens early in the sequence as well. There's not something else happens much before that stands out either" 🤣

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I didn’t see it that way.

For me, trossard isnt holding Pablo down. He has jostled and got himself in a bad position, but there’s mutual holding going on and so trossard is impeded as much by pablo as pablo is by him. Pablo grabs trossard and pulls him out of position, and then uses a two handed grab to turn him and spin him round. This grappling then carry’s on into the crowd, and Pablo collides with Gabriel who is standing his ground, and it’s that collision that impedes both of their jumps. I don’t think any of those things are enough for a foul on him Pablo.

Pablo grabbing the goalkeeper arm is a definite foul though.

What happens with rice in the background with rice is irrelevant, because following the flight of the ball, it is the Reya who would have come into contact with the ball first, and so his fouls happens first, so play stops for that.
 
robertotmackem said:
If i could change one thing about VAR it would be a decision timer. When it gets to the point where you are drawing lines or watching replays for 2 minutes plus, then its clearly not an obvious error by the ref/lino.

60 seconds max or you go with the on field decision.
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Absolutely this. Seems far too logical for them to bring it in.
 
Lucky1985 said:
He did. You can hear him say “possible foul on the goalkeeper”, he gave the on field decision as a goal because he wasn’t absolutely certain of the foul, but he said possible foul to signal to the VAR to check.

I think if they were more transparent about the process it would lead to a much greater consensus confidence in it. But as it is, when we just see them looking at the same image over and over again, then you’re left wondering why it’s taking so long when it’s so obvious that the keeper is being fouled. But then when you hear them mic’d up, you can hear that they are checking at other potential fouls also before sending to the ref for a review.

Understanding are VARs thought process when teaching a decision makes it much easier to accept when they dissent with your own if you can at least see how they have come to their conclusion imho.

Leaving them voiceless just creates a vacuum that can be filled with dissent towards the process by players/managers/punditry.

I didn’t see it that way.

For me, trossard isnt holding Pablo down. He has jostled and got himself in a bad position, but there’s mutual holding going on and so trossard is impeded as much by pablo as pablo is by him. Pablo grabs trossard and pulls him out of position, and then uses a two handed grab to turn him and spin him round. This grappling then carry’s on into the crowd, and Pablo collides with Gabriel who is standing his ground, and it’s that collision that impedes both of their jumps. I don’t think any of those things are enough for a foul on him Pablo.

Pablo grabbing the goalkeeper arm is a definite foul though.

What happens with rice in the background with rice is irrelevant, because following the flight of the ball, it is the Reya who would have come into contact with the ball first, and so his fouls happens first, so play stops for that.
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Its just over complication of a simple game once called football.
When you look at that footage there's literally fouls all over the place when the ball comes in, you could not get away with grabbing and holding players like that 15 / 20 years ago, its out of control.

Having said that the ref commented like you inform me, possible foul on goalkeeper so why on earth look for other fouls...overcomplicating
the game and the Var ce squad looking to justify their roll in the game. Its turned into a farcical circus. End of the day the goal was justifiably ruled out which was correct.
 
hardlife said:
Its just over complication of a simple game once called football.
When you look at that footage there's literally fouls all over the place when the ball comes in, you could not get away with grabbing and holding players like that 15 / 20 years ago, its out of control.

Having said that the ref commented like you inform me, possible foul on goalkeeper so why on earth look for other fouls...overcomplicating
the game and the Var ce squad looking to justify their roll in the game. Its turned into a farcical circus. End of the day the goal was justifiably ruled out which was correct.
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Is it not called football anymore? 😂

There’s nowt like a bit of hyperbole when you don’t have much of a point to make.

15/20 years ago, they weren’t being given as fouls either. The ref was missing them and people were complaining about it and asking for video refereeing to get the right outcome.

The implementation of VAR is absolutely shite, however on this instance it got the right decision. 15/20 years ago the ref would have thought “possible foul on the keeper” and then he would have had to rely on his instinct and guess whether it was a foul or not. At least now they have the tool kit to reach the right decision.

That tool kit however needs a lot of work to improve it, because what we have at the moment is shit.
ErichZann said:
Celtic's penalty decision was soft as shite too
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Hearts has a stone wall pen turned down in their last match by VAR too that should have left them 3 points ahead still.
 
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Lucky1985 said:
Is it not called football anymore? 😂

There’s nowt like a bit of hyperbole when you don’t have much of a point to make.

15/20 years ago, they weren’t being given as fouls either. The ref was missing them and people were complaining about it and asking for video refereeing to get the right outcome.

The implementation of VAR is absolutely shite, however on this instance it got the right decision. 15/20 years ago the ref would have thought “possible foul on the keeper” and then he would have had to rely on his instinct and guess whether it was a foul or not. At least now they have the tool kit to reach the right decision.

That tool kit however needs a lot of work to improve it, because what we have at the moment is shit.

Hearts has a stone wall pen turned down in their last match by VAR too that should have left them 3 points ahead still.
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What a load of guff 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
The first decision I think of when I think of VAR working properly is the Aubameyang goal at Old Trafford when he was an absolute mile onside and the linesman gave it as off. That's the kind of thing I'd ideally have it correcting

Never expected them to spend 8 minutes zooming on on MS Paint screenshots of the live footage trying to decide if someones foreskin is offside
 
Nathan Gunn said:
The problem is the act of kicking the ball is not instantaneous. There is a small time frame where the ball is in contact with the foot than often spans over more than one frame. So at that point, which frame should be used? Is it the point the ball first makes contact with the ball, or is it when the ball leaves the foot?

And of course in that time players are still moving often at fast pace. So this can lead to varying results depending on the frame thats used. It's not always clear to tell the point the impact on the ball ends though. Maybe this is another area they need to use technology in the ball to be able to identify the exact point the contact on the ball ends.

Fine fine margins though and not sure it's corruption as the tweet is suggesting
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Don't know why we haven't gone to the automatic system, the computer will decide the moment exactly the same for everyone.
It doesn't care who is playing who etc etc.
Then the useless buggers officiating just have to spend 10 minutes deciding if they're interfering with play lol.
 
I see Danny Murphy has now said what I've said for ages, since it's been an issue, about a rule change so that the ball is deemed in play when the ball is placed on the quadrant. That means any pulling/pushing etc can be penalised without the ref having to go over. It will drastically reduce defenders or attackers fouling each other just before the kick is taken and gaining an advantage from not being penalised as the ball wasn't in play. That's why they do it as they don't get penalised and it's now become a tactic and Arsenal are one of the better teams doing it.

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It's such a simple rule change but how long will it take them to realise how it would cut down on the shit that goes on every game and without fail a ref always going over "to have a word". I'm not sure how Murphy didn't know about the ball not being in play until this season but then again, it's Danny Murphy 🤣
 
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