Two Bob owners

[Lo Ursem]

I hate to break it to you but Forest are down to 6th now, losing 1-0 and a fairly mixed run in. Loads of teams have good form, but ferw are able to sustain it for a full season, let alone multiple seasons.

We are not as big as Villa and the mags are owned by a petrochemical state.

Fan base has very little impact on success these days, as most of the money comes from TV rights.

Unless you are Spurs or Arsenal who can charge thousands a season for seats and make millions per game on scran.

In your rose tinted world, every club can be challenging for Europe. That is not how elite sporting competitions work. For someone to win everybody else has to lose. For a team to be challenging for Europe they have to be beating all but three other clubs. We are MILES away from competing at that level at present. Even if "the model" works and proper money is spent (big ifs) it will take years to get to that level of success if we're lucky.

Also everyone goes on about our attendance but they count tickets sold, not bums on seats and you can get a kids season ticket for £3 a game. Our ticket prices are fairly low and our corporate options are limited and cheap. 40,000 at a Sunderland match is nowhere near the same money as 40,000 at say a Spurs match. Even if this were not the case, the ticket money is nothing compared to the TV money, of which the Premier league and champions league clubs get multiples more.

Finally, if you think we are a bigger club than Aston Villa, you are living in a fantasy land. They have won the league, several domestic trophies and the European Cup since we last won a top level trophy, and they have been in the top division for most of my life. We have been in the second tier or lower for 60% of the seasons since we won the FA Cup. Villa have been outside the first tier 6 times in the same period. If you are going back 100+ years to prove how "big" a club are, then Blackburn Rovers and Preston North End are also sleeping giants. Except they're not.

Sad but true. We could double our prices and it wouldn't scratch the surface. Since the PL was formed, football now appeals to the wealthy. Clubs can charge what they want. Our traditional support in the old East Durham coalfields and what is now South Tyneside are low wage areas - that is if people even have jobs. Our support amongst the younger generation outside the immediate vicinity of Wearside has collapsed - the KK factor and now the Saudis. We are going the same way of once successful Preston, Bolton and Blackburn etc ... provincial clubs in the shadow of a giant.

 

[Football Dinosaur]

In your rose tinted world, every club can be challenging for Europe. That is not how elite sporting competitions work. For someone to win everybody else has to lose. For a team to be challenging for Europe they have to be beating all but three other clubs. We are MILES away from competing at that level at present. Even if "the model" works and proper money is spent (big ifs) it will take years to get to that level of success if we're lucky.

Also everyone goes on about our attendance but they count tickets sold, not bums on seats and you can get a kids season ticket for £3 a game. Our ticket prices are fairly low and our corporate options are limited and cheap. 40,000 at a Sunderland match is nowhere near the same money as 40,000 at say a Spurs match. Even if this were not the case, the ticket money is nothing compared to the TV money, of which the Premier league and champions league clubs get multiples more.

Finally, if you think we are a bigger club than Aston Villa, you are living in a fantasy land. They have won the league, several domestic trophies and the European Cup since we last won a top level trophy, and they have been in the top division for most of my life. We have been in the second tier or lower for 60% of the seasons since we won the FA Cup. Villa have been outside the first tier 6 times in the same period. If you are going back 100+ years to prove how "big" a club are, then Blackburn Rovers and Preston North End are also sleeping giants. Except they're not.

The teams I've mentioned were miles away just a short period of time ago. If you think they're bigger than us then that's on you. It's not rose tinited to expect better of safc and certainly not to out perform smaller clubs.

If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I've criticised the ownership for not backing managers but also for not utilising the fan base we have. We make a pigs ear of kit launches for example. Supporters fund it more and more difficult to spend not easier. In developing the ground and commercial arm we'd be stronger financially.

All I here is excuses. The position you finish in is down to your own club not external factors. As if we're fulfilling our potential we are easily a successful club.

 

[NYMackem]

The teams I've mentioned were miles away just a short period of time ago. If you think they're bigger than us then that's on you. It's not rose tinited to expect better of safc and certainly not to out perform smaller clubs.

If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I've criticised the ownership for not backing managers but also for not utilising the fan base we have. We make a pigs ear of kit launches for example. Supporters fund it more and more difficult to spend not easier. In developing the ground and commercial arm we'd be stronger financially.

All I here is excuses. The position you finish in is down to your own club not external factors. As if we're fulfilling our potential we are easily a successful club.

You are continuing to ignore the financial differences between the Premier league and the championship, which is entirely down to TV money. I don't think Forest or Brighton are bigger than us and they, along with Leicester, do prove that with a bit of money, luck and good management it is possible to outperform. However the odds are very much against it because of the financial disparity, and having 40,000 fans doesn't change that, even if they all buy two shirts a season.

 

[Football Dinosaur]

You are continuing to ignore the financial differences between the Premier league and the championship, which is entirely down to TV money. I don't think Forest or Brighton are bigger than us and they, along with Leicester, do prove that with a bit of money, luck and good management it is possible to outperform. However the odds are very much against it because of the financial disparity, and having 40,000 fans doesn't change that, even if they all buy two shirts a season.

The teams I mentioned were championship clubs. Your not recognising that we aren't stuck here as they weren't. The size of club and its fan base can be a positive. If we had 1000 fans and 500 capacity ground then we'd fall out of this league. We've the resourced to compete and go up. The little old Sunderland attitude must of course stop, that's I.ln the boardroom as well as the stands

 

[NYMackem]

The teams I mentioned were championship clubs. Your not recognising that we aren't stuck here as they weren't. The size of club and its fan base can be a positive. If we had 1000 fans and 500 capacity ground then we'd fall out of this league. We've the resourced to compete and go up. The little old Sunderland attitude must of course stop, that's I.ln the boardroom as well as the stands

I agree that it is not "impossible" and that our fan base is an asset we have over all but 10 to 15 other English clubs. We are not definitely stuck in the second tier for life. We could establish ourselves as a Premier league club and the first step is absolutely getting promoted.

But you surely have to accept that the financial doping involved in modern football gives huge odds against us succeeding?

And possibly also that getting there means a few years of being a yo-yo club to build the reserves from TV money and parachute payments to become sustainable as a premier league club?

The modern history of the club is mainly us stinking up the top tier or challenging in the second (notwithstanding a couple of years of exceptional performance at both ends of the spectrum). And that mostly happened before money corrupted the sport absolutely.

 

[Football Dinosaur]

I agree that it is not "impossible" and that our fan base is an asset we have over all but 10 to 15 other English clubs. We are not definitely stuck in the second tier for life. We could establish ourselves as a Premier league club and the first step is absolutely getting promoted.

But you surely have to accept that the financial doping involved in modern football gives huge odds against us succeeding?

And possibly also that getting there means a few years of being a yo-yo club to build the reserves from TV money and parachute payments to become sustainable as a premier league club?

The modern history of the club is mainly us stinking up the top tier or challenging in the second (notwithstanding a couple of years of exceptional performance at both ends of the spectrum). And that mostly happened before money corrupted the sport absolutely.

We're able to spend more than we do. We're supposed to have billionaire owners. Other, smaller clubs have beem promoted without prem money, just as clubs have gone down with it. Money isn't everything, ambition and strategy count just as much. As we'll see further evidence of next season.

Posters carry on like we've won the Champions League finishing behind 3 other sides. It's embarrassing, it really is.

 

[rob79safc]

We're able to spend more than we do. We're supposed to have billionaire owners. Other, smaller clubs have beem promoted without prem money, just as clubs have gone down with it. Money isn't everything, ambition and strategy count just as much. As we'll see further evidence of next season.

Posters carry on like we've won the Champions League finishing behind 3 other sides. It's embarrassing, it really is.

Let’s be honest no club in the country would get the support we get after the near constant shite we’ve watched year upon year for decades now,I agree with you tho,some on here think it’s a massive achievement finishing 4th..it is if you compare it to last season but overall this club should be showing the ambition to get back in the big league,that for me from the owner/people at the top has been questionable imo

 

[Football Dinosaur]

Let’s be honest no club in the country would get the support we get after the near constant shite we’ve watched year upon year for decades now,I agree with you tho,some on here think it’s a massive achievement finishing 4th..it is if you compare it to last season but overall this club should be showing the ambition to get back in the big league,that for me from the owner/people at the top has been questionable imo

The support is there to be monetized and help with ffp. You can invest as much as you want in facilities and not count against you. In theory they could put money into the stadium, make it a destination for 24 7 use, improve the commercial side and see ffp improve and their asset increase in value. Don't seem to want to do that though.