I see Trudeau got called out hard today
Who the feck is Christine Anderson? She clearly has massive support there going on the applause.
Truckers against vaccine arrives in town.
- Thread starter Jon Dough
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Who the feck is Christine Anderson? She clearly has massive support there going on the applause.
Jon Dough
Winger
Place is quiet nowadays apart from first-nation protestors, and a Christian guy preaching the bible from a wheel chair, barriers still blocking the roads.
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We have roadworks and diversions here too. No Christians tho.
Where did they all go?
Strawbs were class
Central Defender
Glenn Hoddle does not like that
Right wing German MEP. Turns out @safcforever reckons Trudeau should have met the truckers halfway, or straight-up changed his policies on restrictions to better fit 'the science' in order to end the protest, rather than using the super scary emergencies act.
I don't care about Trudeau one way or another but it's remarkable how he upsets some people to the point that they suspend critical thinking.
safcforever
Striker
2 weeks later there’s no restrictions
big strong Trudeau give it the big one with the emergency act, then when it come to explaining himself he backed down right before he was called out in parliament
He’s made himself look a clown, anyone who thinks different will believe anything they’re told. Just like the “standing ovation” Trudeau received as per the CBC news
it was edited so badlyNothing like when they protested the pipeline and they used police to remove them.
Truckers park up, let’s put in the emergency act. Anyone who thinks the emergency act isn’t extreme is an idiot. They clearly have no idea at what the government is allowed to do if it was ever passed
Offfff, that won’t go down well. Some say she’s a lone speaker with an agenda.
Winnipeg had the usual protestors outside the legislative building and a few anti war protestors stopping traffic for donations.
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2 weeks later there’s no restrictions
big strong Trudeau give it the big one with the emergency act, then when it come to explaining himself he backed down right before he was called out in parliament
He’s made himself look a clown, anyone who thinks different will believe anything they’re told. Just like the “standing ovation” Trudeau received as per the CBC news
Nothing like when they protested the pipeline and they used police to remove them.
Truckers park up, let’s put in the emergency act. Anyone who thinks the emergency act isn’t extreme is an idiot. They clearly have no idea at what the government is allowed to do if it was ever passed
Offfff, that won’t go down well. Some say she’s a lone speaker with an agenda.
Winnipeg had the usual protestors outside the legislative building and a few anti war protestors stopping traffic for donations.
He really gets under your skin doesn’t he?
safcforever
Striker
Yeah, he’s f***ing crap mate. There’s so many things he fucks up. Plus I get that the vote is based of population but the reality is there’s provinces and territories that pump more into the pot than they take out but others have a bigger say. It’s bullshit man
Exapno Mapcase
Striker
Are you suggesting that those with the greatest wealth should have more votes? We had that in Britain, it was shit but it would help in the race to the bottom so it would be on trend.
safcforever
Striker
The provinces and territories who don’t get the vote get fuck all in return.
Toronto and Quebec have the biggest return in votes so the oil workers in Alberta and the farmers in Saskatchewan mean fuck all.
It’s a bullshit system and it’s no wonder Alberta wanna become the 51st state
Is that strictly true? What are you counting as representation?
The territories have between them only around 115,000 people, 0.3% of the population, but they each get one MP, which proportionally means they’re over-represented in the Canadian House of Commons.
All things being equal, Alberta has about 5 seats fewer than it should have. Quebec is actually completely fairly represented, whilst Toronto should have more seats, given it’s population - as should Ontario as a whole.
To better represent the smaller provinces in a lower chamber with only 338 seats, they’re all get more representation than their population should give them.
You say Saskatchewan is under-represented with just 14 seats, but that’s 4% of the House of Commons with just 3% of the population. Similar story for Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia etc. All over-represented given their population.
The US senate is a perfect example of what can go wrong when rural areas are over-represented. Wyoming has a population around 100 times smaller than California, but has equal representation in the senate.
Rural conservatives shouldn’t get to hold the country to ransom. Which seems to be what you’re arguing for.
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safcforever
Striker
The point is provinces like Alberta put a lot of money into the pot but will never have a say. Trudeau and his party know they only need to win certain areas and they’ve won.
They don’t even visit certain major cities because the don’t have to. They’ll win by getting Ontario, Quebec and a handful from BC, the rest don’t really matter
Jon Dough
Winger
Convoy returns to the capital weeks after the end of the 'Freedom Convoy' protest
Five weeks after police pushed Freedom Convoy protesters out of Ottawa's downtown core, they returned.
Alberta certainly does get a say. It just rarely votes for the winning party. It reliably votes for whichever right-of-centre party is most popular at the time, which is currently the Conservative Party of Canada. When the Conservatives were doing well - winning in 2006, 2008 and 2011, Alberta voted with them. For nine years, the Canadian Prime Minister's electoral division was in Alberta. Was anyone complaining during this period that Alberta didn't have a say?
Alberta should have more seats than it does - approximately 5 more by my reckoning, but even if you gave the Conservative Party and extra 5 seats and took 5 away from the Liberal Party, the Liberal Party would still have held power since 2015.
I don't think it's true to say that Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia are enough to get the Liberals over the line. In 2021, 80% of the Liberal Party's seats came from those three provinces, but in the same year, 79% of the Conservative Party's seats also came from just three provinces - Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario.
You could say that the Conservative Party got more votes in total, and thus should have been able to form a government. Such is the flaws with FPTP and I would get rid of the FPTP in this country, but if Canada did get rid of it, there's no guarantee that people would vote for the same party. It's hard to determine from FPTP quite who the public want, when the winning party never gets a majority of the votes.
Trudeau absolutely did visit Alberta by the way. He campaigned in Calgary in August 2021.
Jon Dough
Winger
Google makes everyone an instant expert, I am anticipating the views on the philippine election soon
safcforever
Striker
He didn’t visit Edmonton, the capital.
His plane landed in Regina for a photo shot (still on the runway), the first time he’s visited Saskatchewan during an election campaign, and he didn’t leave the airport.
He didn’t visit any of the Northern territories.
As for the east coast I believe he only visited 2 cities and both were already Liberal held seats. The east coast is where he’s lost most of his seats, that’s how little it means to them. He knows he only need a small section of the country and he wins.
The 2 pictures below show you what I mean
The liberals got 32.62% of the Canadian vote. Seriously look at the map, where are the 32.62%? All within a very small bubble. So feed that crowd and you’re always gonna win.
The cons got 33.74% of the vote, but because it wasn’t Toronto it means fuck all.
It’s a flawed system.
The second map was 2019. Same again. Most of Toronto, Montreal and a small part of southern BC. The rest of the country can just play along. The cons actually took more seats during the 2019 than the 2021 election.
I understand they all have the same country/seats to fight for and the population does and should matter. But as long as the people of Toronto (GTA) and Montreal are pandered to then the rest can fuck themselves. Keep investing in these areas and keep them votes in their pockets.
Trudeau campaigned in Edmonton in 2015 and 2019 though. Was 2021's campaigning a little muted due to the pandemic? I don't know.
I assume Harper, Scheer and O'Toole out-campaign Trudeau in terms of locations visited? In 2015 and 2019 did Harper and then Scheer sink campaign resources into liberal held areas?
It's a fairly common criticism of politicians that they focus on their base but they do so for a reason - limited time and limited money. It's shit, but it happens in every country and I doubt somehow that Trudeau's electoral rivals are consistently campaigning everywhere whilst he is not. If he isn't, and they are, and they're still losing, well maybe their policies just aren't very good.
You're not wrong about the relatively tighter geographical spread of where the Liberal Party gets most of it's votes from, but you are wrong in that feeding those seats means you always win.
No party can win by focusing just on the metropolitan areas. If this was true, how come the Conservative Party of Canada won in both 2006 and 2008 without winning significant numbers of seats in Toronto or Montreal? Whilst Montreal is never likely to be fertile ground for the Conservatives, they've held significant numbers of seats in Toronto and Vancouver in the last two decades, including in 2011, when they won around half of seats in Toronto.
Some of the accusations you level at the Liberal Party apply equally to the Conservatives. In 2021, 79% of the Conservative Party's seats came from just three provinces - Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario. 80% of the Liberal Party's seats came from just three provinces - Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia.
I don't disagree about electoral reform. First Past The Post is not a good system. Switching to proportional representation could make worse some of the issues you are unhappy with though. Canada's metropolitan areas and larger provinces are under-represented, to make sure that the smaller provinces and territories get representation in the commons. Switching to a proportional system would only inflate the electoral power that these areas have.
I really think you're over-egging the influence of those metropolitan areas. I suppose you do have to ask though...if it's so important to win Toronto and Montreal...why aren't the conservatives trying to do so?
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zwartekat
Striker
To be fair, Google is not much different to reading books on a subject but a bit more accessible. Having said that, a proper book will almost always be a better option.Google makes everyone an instant expert, I am anticipating the views on the philippine election soon
