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Too soon for Henderson to come back?

Sea to Shining Sea said:
I think you’re entirely missing the point.

There is an equivalence for the reasons for criticism of Henderson and NUFC. The reasons are the same. Both sold themselves for the riches of Saudi Arabia. Both entities had made themselves allies of particular causes (Henderson LGBT and NUFC fans opponents of nefarious business practices) and then sold out with the whiff of oil money.

SAFC fans on here criticised Henderson for his decision to go there in the same way they criticised NUFC. If he returns and defences are being provided, it’s quite obviously hypocritical and more or less exactly what Mags do with the whataboutery and distraction.
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Your standard as I see it. Anyone who is paid/owned is a “sell out”
 

@dcl0sc thanks for sharing. You able to say at all what happened with KS? Sounds unprofessional from KS. whatever faults people claim KS had, I've never heard anyone call him unprofessional
 
No No No. Jordan Henderson is yesterdays man.

He also made himself look very stupid and foolish with his Saudi antics; he is certainly not the type of role model SAFC need.
 
Safc98 said:
Your standard as I see it. Anyone who is paid/owned is a “sell out”
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He literally moved to Saudi Arabia and gave an absolute bullshit speech about how Saudi Arabia is great and then doubled down on it...

This isn't the same as someone who works for a Saudi company in Middlesbrough (is there any, I don't know?).

You either condemn both, or condemn neither. Anything else you're a hypocrite. It's exactly the same thing. I don't want any player who has played in Chinese Super League, Saudi League or Qatar League (is there one?). They're mercenaries and is everything that the club doesn't want or need and is a big part of why we ended up in League One in the first place.
 
Zimba said:
He literally moved to Saudi Arabia and gave an absolute bullshit speech about how Saudi Arabia is great and then doubled down on it...

This isn't the same as someone who works for a Saudi company in Middlesbrough (is there any, I don't know?).

You either condemn both, or condemn neither. Anything else you're a hypocrite. It's exactly the same thing. I don't want any player who has played in Chinese Super League, Saudi League or Qatar League (is there one?). They're mercenaries and is everything that the club doesn't want or need and is a big part of why we ended up in League One in the first place.
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Nope. They are not the same things.

Are you okay with taking Man City players and PSG players on loan? Because they’re paid from the same sources you mention.
 
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Safc98 said:
Your standard as I see it. Anyone who is paid/owned is a “sell out”
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As I explained, Henderson set himself up as an advocate of LGBT rights and as a man of morality and decency. This forum, and the football world, largely condemned his move as hypocritical, hugely disappointing and motivated by eye watering riches. Whilst he was already a comfortable millionaire. He was a vehicle for Saudi sportswashing and arguably he was somewhat of an institution himself as a former Liverpool and occasional England captain. He was a bought institution.

If Henderson signs for us, and his previous decision all of a sudden becomes defended or somewhat justified by the clubs supporters because he is again wearing the red and white, any criticism of sportswashing in future becomes hollow and also hypocritical. And the ‘what about Michut and Doyle’ stuff is the beginnings of that.

Sunderland’s hierarchy wouldn’t have to justify themselves however. From a playing perspective, he’d represent a huge coup and they’ve not put any moral arguments forward (in fact, they’ve done the opposite if our hosting of them in January is anything to go by).

He’d be a good signing from the footballing perspective. Almost undoubtedly. But he’d not be a returning hero to me.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
As I explained, Henderson set himself up as an advocate of LGBT rights and as a man of morality and decency. This forum, and the football world, largely condemned his move as hypocritical, hugely disappointing and motivated by eye watering riches. Whilst he was already a comfortable millionaire. He was a vehicle for Saudi sportswashing and arguably he was somewhat of an institution himself as a former Liverpool and occasional England captain. He was a bought institution.

If Henderson signs for us, and his previous decision all of a sudden becomes defended or somewhat justified by the clubs supporters because he is again wearing the red and white, any criticism of sportswashing in future becomes hollow and also hypocritical. And the ‘what about Michut and Doyle’ stuff is the beginnings of that.

Sunderland’s hierarchy wouldn’t have to justify themselves however. From a playing perspective, he’d represent a huge coup and they’ve not put any moral arguments forward (in fact, they’ve done the opposite if our hosting of them in January is anything to go by).

He’d be a good signing from the footballing perspective. Almost undoubtedly. But he’d not be a returning hero to me.
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Don’t think I’ve seen anyone defend his U-Turn (if they have then they’re stupid). I’m not defending him. I’m just saying it wouldn’t put us on the same level as our neighbours and if we’re going to start questioning footballer’s morals, well, we’ll be here all night.
 
Safc98 said:
Don’t think I’ve seen anyone defend his U-Turn (if they have then they’re stupid). I’m not defending him. I’m just saying it wouldn’t put us on the same level as our neighbours and if we’re going to start questioning footballer’s morals, well, we’ll be here all night.
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It would if people start performing a volte face and defend his decision or making justifications for it. That was my initial point. And a poster had already stated that they’d worked for oil money and that criticism of Henderson was only virtue signalling.
 
Safc98 said:
Nope. They are not the same things. This is what I mean, critical thinking.

Are you okay with taking Man City players and PSG players on loan? Because they’re paid from the same sources you mention.
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It's not the money that's the issue, it's the part where he came out in support Saudi Arabia, blabbering on about how he was going to change it and doubled down on it and still backs it. This is the literal definition of sports washing. It's exactly the same as all the LIV golfers doing the exact same thing and they're getting equal criticism.

He personally sportswashed, that's on him. Man City and PSG players don't support Saudi Arabia or any other country personally, if they did that then they'll fall in the same club.

I've got no issue with someone saying I don't care, it's money. I do have an issue with someone saying I'm doing it for the country and it's not for the money.
 
Zimba said:
He literally moved to Saudi Arabia and gave an absolute bullshit speech about how Saudi Arabia is great and then doubled down on it...

This isn't the same as someone who works for a Saudi company in Middlesbrough (is there any, I don't know?).

You either condemn both, or condemn neither. Anything else you're a hypocrite. It's exactly the same thing. I don't want any player who has played in Chinese Super League, Saudi League or Qatar League (is there one?). They're mercenaries and is everything that the club doesn't want or need and is a big part of why we ended up in League One in the first place.
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This is what some seem to be missing and trying to justify it by comparing Joe Bloggs going over there to fill his boots. The big difference here is the rainbow laces etc and saying stuff like this and Henderson already being a mega millionaire that Joe Bloggs wouldn't have been.

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“This is always an occasion that makes me especially proud to be club captain because I could not be stronger in my belief that the values we are celebrating – unity, togetherness, inclusion – could not be more in keeping with those of our club and our city.

“I have regularly worn rainbow laces and today will be no exception because this kind of visible support can only have a positive impact. It also sends the powerful message that football is for everyone and the more of us who can take this message back into our homes, workplaces and daily lives the better.

“The more we can understand, the more we can learn and the more we can stand together on issues like this, the more we will move towards the kind of inclusive society that is more welcoming of everyone. “Football has its part to play and, as I said, I couldn’t be more proud to play a small part of my own.”
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Or this

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Yet he went to Saudi claiming he was going there to grow football. His announcement video had his pride coloured Captain's armband greyed out. So much for growing football as he ended up being a puppet for Saudi coming out with this crap yet look at the tweet above about Qatar. Completely sportswashed due to greed as he could have still got decent money anywhere in Europe.

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Zimba said:
It's not the money that's the issue, it's the part where he came out in support Saudi Arabia, blabbering on about how he was going to change it and doubled down on it and still backs it. This is the literal definition of sports washing. It's exactly the same as all the LIV golfers doing the exact same thing and they're getting equal criticism.

He personally sportswashed, that's on him. Man City and PSG players don't support Saudi Arabia or any other country personally, if they did that then they'll fall in the same club.

I've got no issue with someone saying I don't care, it's money. I do have an issue with someone saying I'm doing it for the country and it's not for the money.
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They do like.
 
Sporty said:
This is what some seem to be missing and trying to justify it by comparing Joe Bloggs going over there to fill his boots. The big difference here is the rainbow laces etc and saying stuff like this and Henderson already being a mega millionaire that Joe Bloggs wouldn't have been.

You must be logged on to see external links
------------------------------------------------------
“This is always an occasion that makes me especially proud to be club captain because I could not be stronger in my belief that the values we are celebrating – unity, togetherness, inclusion – could not be more in keeping with those of our club and our city.

“I have regularly worn rainbow laces and today will be no exception because this kind of visible support can only have a positive impact. It also sends the powerful message that football is for everyone and the more of us who can take this message back into our homes, workplaces and daily lives the better.

“The more we can understand, the more we can learn and the more we can stand together on issues like this, the more we will move towards the kind of inclusive society that is more welcoming of everyone. “Football has its part to play and, as I said, I couldn’t be more proud to play a small part of my own.”
------------------------------------------------------

Or this

You must be logged on to see media items

Yet he went to Saudi claiming he was going there to grow football. His announcement video had his pride coloured Captain's armband greyed out. So much for growing football as he ended up being a puppet for Saudi coming out with this crap yet look at the tweet above about Qatar.

You must be logged on to see media items
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Pretty much nailed it, it's just completely wrong and it's completely on him. He can't blame anyone else but himself and he still to this day hasn't apologised for it, just apologising for those that he hurt which are two very different things.

Safc98 said:
They do like.
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They don't though, they don't promote videos saying they want the World Cup to be in Saudi Arabia in 2034 etc as linked above, that's the issue people have with it. Like personally I have no issue with any Newcastle player from a Saudi point of view as they just play football. Most football owners are bent in some form of way, Chelsea and Russia in the past - for example. That video is well above playing football though.
 
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