Tom Burwell - Interim CEO Podcast

[Fact Hunt]

I’ve just listened to very selective highlights of this interview on Total Sport and while i found it fascinating it also left me feeling cold in equal measures.

Marco and Nick both made a valid point that we are not the most prosperous region in the country and it might be difficult to increase the corporate area, and this is an area that the acting CEO appears to be focussing on.

I need to listen to it in its entirety to get a clearer picture.

 

[Giz73]

The club are penny pinching over loose change and pissing off loads of loyal fans. There's a balance and they've completely fucked it up.

This is few thousand quid, 1 weeks wages for a half decent player. Not something that will make a jot of difference long term regarding our finances.

When they need the fans again some of them will have chucked it in and not be willing to dig in their pockets again.

Buy all the fabric?

Haway man you just get an expert in and farm all the work out. You do very little of the actual work yourself. You just cream most of the cash off.

I haven’t mentioned anything about them pissing off loyal fans, I’m talking about us needing to move with the times in order to be competitive, you either accept that or we join the likes of Burnley, I know what I want.

 

[brains]

I haven’t mentioned anything about them pissing off loyal fans, I’m talking about us needing to move with the times in order to be competitive, you either accept that or we join the likes of Burnley, I know what I want.

By all means have more corporate tickets in the extension if they believe that they can fill them.

But don't try and force fans to stay in there by making them to go to the back of the waiting list if they want to move.

It's about a fair balance that keeps fans happy.

 

[not spavin]

It’s all just a massive double edged sword. To be successful in the PL you have to increase your revenues and effectively “exploit” the market, or fans. We all want the club to be successful but that effectively means being ripped off more and more and losing that feeling if a family club. Effectively they are the choices. The PL is the money go round we all knew it was, but it’s got worse than ever in the time we’ve been away.

I was a season ticket holder for many years, got to my regulation 10/12 games a year for the past 20 years, but now not being a ST holder means there will be very few games I get to. That’s the price of success as well I guess. Even when I eventually move back to the area a ST will probably not be possible due to the wait list. But I’d still rather see the club successful and the lads and lasses who go week in week out be treated well.

It's fairly easy to get tickets if you're on the website 5 mins before the tickets go on general sale - I assumed I'd really struggle this season as I live overseas so can only get to a handful of games, but it has been fine.

 

[Keith S30S]

No but I’m guessing the club who have access to all sorts of data have already done that to establish that conclusion-doesn’t surprise surely ?

I assume they mean the borough of Sunderland, i.e. Washington etc. I think it's around 250,000 people so yeah 25K in that area could have season tickets.

I haven’t mentioned anything about them pissing off loyal fans, I’m talking about us needing to move with the times in order to be competitive, you either accept that or we join the likes of Burnley, I know what I want.

Which is fine as long as they remember who and what the club is and that is the fans! The club is nothing without them.

 

[im not roland rat]

You might have inside knowledge but really there are a lot of negatives to it looking from the outside.

First off you'd need to design it and buy all the fabric, find a factory willing to do whatever low number you wish, then you got to take all the risk of deciding what number as theres no way unless its a bespoke factory they'll run a second or third order of 10k shirts and bespoke factories wont be cheap. Then you'd need the higher spec player shirts unless we are just only doing player level kit. Then transport from Asia to UK and the issues that brings and risks. Again we could get a british based company but good luck getting that cheap. All it takes is 1 bad shirt and sales are down and you're holding onto 25% of your stock so there goes the £1.25m or a bad season and nobody is buying it. You then run the risk of doing a castore who admit they ran before they could walk and created shirts that players and fans hated and lost money doing it.

Theres a reason clubs dont create them and its because the extra headache really isnt worth it for the money, we can finish 1 place higher in the league and it will bring in more than we would get from a shirt. A couple of rounds in a cup would probably do the same, the overheads needed to create our own bespoke shirt is massive, Nike have it down to a T so they make money easily, a new player coming in would struggle like mad. Only way I can see it happening is it 10 clubs got together and tried it.

Literally none of what you’ve said would be an issue if the operating model is set up right. It could be set up in weeks. The factories that make football shirts will make anything from 10 units to a 100k units. Price varies of course but it’s all doable.

The bad shirt is also not an issue as I’ve said one of the benefits to Sunderland is you’ll sell regardless of how shit it is. Even the deckchair shirt when we got relegated to league one sold 30k units.

Literally every source of revenue needs to be maximised so the theory of ‘it’s only an additional £2m or £3m’ is exactly the sort of attitude the club has to stamp out in its commercial function. People need to realise that every pound matters or the club will never succeed.

The club doing their own kit and merch could be the value of two premier league players wages every season.

 

[Big Bellyingham]

I assume they mean the borough of Sunderland, i.e. Washington etc. I think it's around 250,000 people so yeah 25K in that area could have season tickets.

Which is fine as long as they remember who and what the club is and that is the fans! The club is nothing without them.

I take “heart “from that interview that he seems to understand the importance of the fans balanced within the néed for global growth which will attract better players from increased revenue .
Seems the club is intent on improving our finances ( global and corporate growth ) to compete at the highest level -as long as you say we are still at their forefront ehen decision making I would love to see us kick on before I keel square over …!
I’m quite excited by it as long as we maintain the club /fans connection
This ownership isn’t here it seems for mediocrity

 

[HarrogateMackem]

I’ve just listened to very selective highlights of this interview on Total Sport and while i found it fascinating it also left me feeling cold in equal measures.

Marco and Nick both made a valid point that we are not the most prosperous region in the country and it might be difficult to increase the corporate area, and this is an area that the acting CEO appears to be focussing on.

I need to listen to it in its entirety to get a clearer picture.

He makes the point in the full interview the Mags made nearly 100m more than us in a non-champions league season last season then we’ll make this year.

I assume that’s in part in the league position/ player sales (?). But the question I have is what else are they doing (in the same region as us)

 

[not spavin]

I’ve just listened to very selective highlights of this interview on Total Sport and while i found it fascinating it also left me feeling cold in equal measures.

Marco and Nick both made a valid point that we are not the most prosperous region in the country and it might be difficult to increase the corporate area, and this is an area that the acting CEO appears to be focussing on.

I need to listen to it in its entirety to get a clearer picture.

To do well on corporate tickets you have to attract businesses - rather than wealthy individuals - and my concern is that the NE will always lag far behind London, Manchester and Birmingham on that front. We can absolutely improve income there, but I think we'll quickly hit a ceiling.

I think there's far more potential in the other area he mentions - growing the brand in overseas markets. If we become a big deal in Africa (say) then we can attract sponsors that focus on the African market in addition to domestic sponsors. Spurs are earn about the same match day revenue as Man U because they're in London, but Man U make around £40m more in sponsorship revenue because they're a big draw in places like Korea and the US.

And there's far less of a hit on local fans that way too - we'd have to allocate some seating to overseas fans but you wouldn't get the type of debacle that's going on at the moment.

 

[Giz73]

By all means have more corporate tickets in the extension if they believe that they can fill them.

But don't try and force fans to stay in there by making them to go to the back of the waiting list if they want to move.

It's about a fair balance that keeps fans happy.

Again, I haven’t mentioned anything about that, not sure why you’re quoting my post when it is totally irrelevant.

I assume they mean the borough of Sunderland, i.e. Washington etc. I think it's around 250,000 people so yeah 25K in that area could have season tickets.

Which is fine as long as they remember who and what the club is and that is the fans! The club is nothing without them.

Totally agree, we will be still here long after the current ownership group have gone.

 

[brains]

Again, I haven’t mentioned anything about that, not sure why you’re quoting my post when it is totally irrelevant.

Totally agree, we will be still here long after the current ownership group have gone.

I just quoted your post because I think most fans would agree that we need to move with the times, which will mean getting fleeced more as fans for tickets, strips, memberships - whatever it may be. If you want to compete in the PL then every pound counts. But the club are making some glaring mistakes in order to achieve this, which is why I mentioned striking a fair balance.

It's no good moving with the times , if it means that you make stupid decisions and isolate lifelong fans.

 

[Keith S30S]

He makes the point in the full interview the Mags made nearly 100m more than us in a non-champions league season last season then we’ll make this year.

I assume that’s in part in the league position/ player sales (?). But the question I have is what else are they doing (in the same region as us)

Odd because he literally has no idea how much we'll make this year.

We could finish 7th or 15th, that's about £20M difference. The more I hear the less I'm convinced about this bloke.

Tell it as it is. If you're only talking ball park say so.

The mags have 5K more seats than us. They have had a lot of home cup games for their decent cup runs too. Variables you can do nothing about as a CEO.

 

[HarrogateMackem]

Odd because he literally has no idea how much we'll make this year.

We could finish 7th or 15th, that's about £20M difference. The more I hear the less I'm convinced about this bloke.

Tell it as it is. If you're only talking ball park say so.

I think he does - ball park about 200m. Mags made about 300m. I listened yesterday, so might be misremembering?

 

[not spavin]

He makes the point in the full interview the Mags made nearly 100m more than us in a non-champions league season last season then we’ll make this year.

I assume that’s in part in the league position/ player sales (?). But the question I have is what else are they doing (in the same region as us)

Think they get £32m a year off Sela and Noon for a kick off - the W88 fee isn't disclosed but it's presumably closer to the £8-10m that Palace, Everton and Fulham get.

They get £30m per year from Adidas too - we'll get a fraction of that from Hummel given the initial deal was struck in the Championship.

 

[Deleted member 56248]

It's a good interview, but did he really say "Niall Quinn, Kevin Phillips, Jermaine Defoe, Michael Ball"?

He was getting confused between Kevin Ball and Michael Beale

 

[FoldingStars]

The club are penny pinching over loose change and pissing off loads of loyal fans. There's a balance and they've completely fucked it up.

This is few thousand quid, 1 weeks wages for a half decent player. Not something that will make a jot of difference long term regarding our finances.

When they need the fans again some of them will have chucked it in and not be willing to dig in their pockets again.

Buy all the fabric?

Haway man you just get an expert in and farm all the work out. You do very little of the actual work yourself. You just cream most of the cash off.

So instead of saying Nike you do it and we get money we say we shall pay all the money out and take all the risk? It’s easier just having our own store and selling it ourselves. We are a football business not a clothing manufacturer.

Literally none of what you’ve said would be an issue if the operating model is set up right. It could be set up in weeks. The factories that make football shirts will make anything from 10 units to a 100k units. Price varies of course but it’s all doable.

The bad shirt is also not an issue as I’ve said one of the benefits to Sunderland is you’ll sell regardless of how shit it is. Even the deckchair shirt when we got relegated to league one sold 30k units.

Literally every source of revenue needs to be maximised so the theory of ‘it’s only an additional £2m or £3m’ is exactly the sort of attitude the club has to stamp out in its commercial function. People need to realise that every pound matters or the club will never succeed.

The club doing their own kit and merch could be the value of two premier league players wages every season.

But we didn’t know it would sell 30k before the season started, so do you risk it and say buy 50k first off? What’s the lag time on a shirt and how will much would we risk to lose? You might be in the industry and know it all but really looking from the outside it’s a huge gamble that doesn’t pay off much as 1 mistake and we are fucked from it.

Instead of taking a huge risk surely the easier option would be open our own store so we don’t get royalties from fanatics but and we don’t take huge risks?

 

[Rokeroar]

I'm an hour in and I like this guy a lot.

Agree, love his enthusiasm, you can see he’s fully invested

 

[Keith S30S]

So instead of saying Nike you do it and we get money we say we shall pay all the money out and take all the risk? It’s easier just having our own store and selling it ourselves. We are a football business not a clothing manufacturer.

What risk? The lad posting on here is talking about us making a tonne of extra money. We are guaranteed shirt sales. To a laymen it looks a no brainer. If we only make half the sales of a normal season we'd still make more money.

The only person who thinks we'd be employing a team of sewing machine employees is you. You'd farm out literally everything out but the in-person club shop sales.

 

[Rokeroar]

He was getting confused between Kevin Ball and Michael Beale

I think it was Michael Ball (the singer)

 

[Giz73]

I just quoted your post because I think most fans would agree that we need to move with the times, which will mean getting fleeced more as fans for tickets, strips, memberships - whatever it may be. If you want to compete in the PL then every pound counts. But the club are making some glaring mistakes in order to achieve this, which is why I mentioned striking a fair balance.

It's no good moving with the times , if it means that you make stupid decisions and isolate lifelong fans.

Agree, with that 100%. It’s shite what they’ve done to people wanting to downgrade. I was just commenting on us needing to move with the times to keep the club competitive.