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The ref (see PGMOL thread)

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Roker Magic said:
I agree that the ref had a nightmare yesterday. Dan Neil has to take his share of the blame though. Already being on a yellow, challenging a ref with swearing is risky. I think it needs to be made black and white, right across the football league though. 'If you approach the referee with foul language' you WILL be booked. Part of the problem is lack if consistency. I also think Dan Neil might have assumed that being at home in front of a huge support, the ref probably wouldn't have had the balls to do it.
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Why was matt crooks not booked for approaching him shouting f off then?

Why was greenwood not booked after 3 minutes when he booted the ball away?

Let's quote the laws and see how many he ignored then
 

Father Jack Hackett said:
I agree mate, absolutely but let’s be honest, we can all see the level of aggression there which, is minimal at best. If that is the rule then fair enough, he walks but it has to be upheld every time this bloke now sets foot onto a pitch.
Swearing so very black and white whereas I completely agree aggression isn’t.
An extremely aggressive act took place about 30 seconds later as well but that’s all entirely different issue.
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Tbf mate, I have said several times it was harsh as you would not expect a player to normally get sent off in that situation so can see other views and that Neil was possibly unlucky.

But still maintain he has to take some responsibility and accountability for doing what he did while crucially on a yellow card.

And definitely maintain, footballers should be more disciplined and professional in passionate and frustrating situations.

You see all the time in other sports players been frustrated and passionate, but always show more discipline

But maybe that’s more to do with the ridiculous culture that is football, that accepts constant abuse of one man having to make spilt second decisions in proven extremely difficult circumstances.
 
redandwhiterob said:
As I said before they are just different incidents seen from different angles. Just cos one was given doesn't mean the other needs to be. Incidents need judging individually. Referees will be the honest people in the stadium where as players and fans would argue black is white if it benefitted there team
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Did you defend the VAR at spurs Liverpool last week?
 
wicketkeeper said:
I do not think that is correct. Check my posts on this game and you will see that not once have I criticised the ref for his interpretation of fouls although others have pointed them out.



What I have focused on is the fact that this referee in sending off Neil has acted in a virtually unprecedented way and some like yourself have blamed the player
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I know it’s true as had many many arguments over many games over many years,where you have absolutely destroyed a ref for not or giving a foul.

So while you may not questioned the ref over fouls in this particular game.

it’s complete nonsense for you to say and I quote ‘ I have no problem with refs judgement 99% of times’

That quote is simply a lie.
 
Mowgli said:
Why was matt crooks not booked for approaching him shouting f off then?

Why was greenwood not booked after 3 minutes when he booted the ball away?

Let's quote the laws and see how many he ignored then
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No, I agree with you. Like I said the ref has had a nightmare. The other point I made though, was that Dan Neil has to take some responsibility. Regardless of the ref not being consistent, he was already on a yellow and shouldn't have given the ref a decision to make.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Tbf mate, I have said several times it was harsh as you would not expect a player to normally get sent off in that situation so can see other views and that Neil was possibly unlucky.

But still maintain he has to take some responsibility and accountability for doing what he did while crucially on a yellow card.

And definitely maintain, footballers should be more disciplined and professional in passionate and frustrating situations.

You see all the time in other sports players been frustrated and passionate, but always show more discipline

But maybe that’s more to do with the ridiculous culture that is football, that accepts constant abuse of one man having to make spilt second decisions in proven extremely difficult circumstances.
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I agree mate but look at when Neil goes up to him after the card there is no abuse whatsoever and he knows he’s been wronged
 
Mowgli said:
Why was matt crooks not booked for approaching him shouting f off then?

Why was greenwood not booked after 3 minutes when he booted the ball away?

Let's quote the laws and see how many he ignored then
Click to expand...

Must have been the angle the referee was at
 
Voice of fair play said:
Consistently is not possible when you dealing with different instances and people.

Consistently has never happened and never will it’s down to interpretation and is subjective always has been.

That’s one of the key problems with stupid handball situation and other stuff striving for the impossible.

Refs should just be allowed to ref the game how they see fit and mistakes they inevitably make treated the same way as the inevitable mistakes made by players.

Used to be that way up to a point, and there was nothing wrong with the game, until everyone concerned, pundits, fans, managers and the media did not accept them inevitable mistakes.

Now we have incredible ridiculous over the scrutiny where people look at ref games against a certain team in the past and put 2 and 2 together and make 7 that the ref has something against them which is complete nonsense, even occasions looking where a ref lives and saying he lives to close to one team so must be biased :D

What everybody needs to do from all angles imo ( but will not happen) is stop trying to make instances and fouls the same and compare, all fouls are different and seen differently by different people.

And stop asking for consistently because it’s f***ing impossible.

Refs should rightly get criticism when they have the luxury of VAR and still get it wrong.

However when they have one look, one angle and split seconds to make a decision in such a fast paced game, 99% of times their mistakes should be accepted and understood like they once were, sadly they not and why we have some of the ridiculous situations we have now on occasions.
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Its not impossible to have consistancy at all, its a basic requirement to the best of a refs ability, if you are going to allow a player (Crooks) to tell you to fuck off to your face from 2 yards away you cant then a few minutes later give Neil a 2nd yellow for what he said, its incompetence bordering on arrogance.
 
Missplaced Childhood said:
Its not impossible to have consistancy at all, its a basic requirement to the best of a refs ability, if you are going to allow a player (Crooks) to tell you to fuck off to your face from 2 yards away you cant then a few minutes later give Neil a 2nd yellow for what he said, its incompetence bordering on arrogance.
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Of course it is, consistently has never happened ever in football and never will, as all instances different they not the same.

If you can give me a valid reason why a ref would not send someone of for the exact same instance and not another I will take that seriously?

Can you?

And no instances are exactly the same.
 
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So if Neil was in the wrong then in future none of our fans should complain about Sunderland players not questioning referees decisions. As he was not near the referee it comes across as pure frustration
 
Missplaced Childhood said:
Its not impossible to have consistancy at all, its a basic requirement to the best of a refs ability, if you are going to allow a player (Crooks) to tell you to fuck off to your face from 2 yards away you cant then a few minutes later give Neil a 2nd yellow for what he said, its incompetence bordering on arrogance.
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Would love to hear from the ref directly and explain that ? Simple but it won’t happen because it will be impossible without proving he was simply being biased
 
Voice of fair play said:
Of course it is, consistently has never happened ever in football and never will, as all instances different they not the same
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You will get inconsistancies in how a tackle is judged as at speed in a game its difficult with 1 view, however dissent is an easy one, if you swear at the ref you are carded and yesterday he chose to pick and choose when to enforce this, personally i would deem being told to fuck off to ny face worse than what Neil did.
 
wicketkeeper said:
It isnt exactly because Neils expeience in hundreds of matches since he has started playing has shown him that there was no decision to make
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He is that person again, the one who says he has no problem with refs judgements on fouls 99% of times.

Despite slaughtering refs for exactly that 100s of times in the past
 
Roker Magic said:
No, I agree with you. Like I said the ref has had a nightmare. The other point I made though, was that Dan Neil has to take some responsibility. Regardless of the ref not being consistent, he was already on a yellow and shouldn't have given the ref a decision to make.
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This is totally wrong and totally working from hindsight.
If a player has done the same thing hundreds of times and seen others do the same with no consequences he is entitled to assume the same result on this occasion.
You can not criticise the player because one ref makes a totally unprecedented decisionx
 
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