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The Pep myth

Sharpshooter said:
Regardless of what people say about the money, winning both the domestic and now the CL treble is a superb achievement. No guarantee every other manager with his resources would just do the same thing.
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Many top managers would,

He could have any player he wanted

He hasn’t worked from the bottom year on year.
 

TheStinger said:
The top managers would, though. Fergie, Clough, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger. Its taken him 12 years to win another Champions League. And it took him over a billion spend it with the 3rd team he tried it with. Praising someone with 115 charges at one club, and a shitload to add on to that at Barcelona when he was managing is normalising cheating. You can excuse a bit of bullshit, but look at the money they've spent from every aspect of that club. Its shocking to be fair.
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Mourinho is an awful example in that list, he’s failed miserably as often as he’s succeeded (even with a load of £££).
 
Sharpshooter said:
Regardless of what people say about the money, winning both the domestic and now the CL treble is a superb achievement. No guarantee every other manager with his resources would just do the same thing.
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Exactly. It takes a lot more than just money to create a successful team. Look at PSG . Chelsea anarl . I'll be interested to see how Pochettino gets on with that lot. And of course Newcastle with their newly acquired riches. Absolutely no guarantees there either
 
Toronado said:
But should be nowhere near any discussion about the best manager ever !

Aberdeen with Fergie
Porto with Mourinho
Ancelotti for his sheer number

Pep has nothing like that

He has magical players in all his success’ and a lot of money spent
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Nowhere near a discussion about best manager ever?
Nowhere near? Really?

That's ridiculous.

He's won 11 out of 14 league titles, 3 champions leagues, including 2 of them as trebles, a domestic treble with man city. His teams have set points records in all the leagues he's managed in.

But he should be nowhere near the discussion?

Ridiculous.

He's right in the mix
 
What A Waster said:
Money no object? Not quite. For example they didn't sign Van Dijk, Sanchez, Maguire, Kane, Fernandes when priced out. They do have money and use it well, but if money is no object then they'd have signed the players i mentioned. They were in the race for them, but ultimately the transfer fee was too much.
They couldn't have done what they've done without the money, but they're not there solely because of it. Spending like fuck and spending well are two different things. A good example of spending like fuck is Chelsea and Everton over the last few years. Spending well is a different story.
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Neet marra.
 
TheStinger said:
The top managers would, though. Fergie, Clough, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger. Its taken him 12 years to win another Champions League. And it took him over a billion spend it with the 3rd team he tried it with. Praising someone with 115 charges at one club, and a shitload to add on to that at Barcelona when he was managing is normalising cheating. You can excuse a bit of bullshit, but look at the money they've spent from every aspect of that club. Its shocking to be fair.
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Mourinho at Chelsea under abramovich in an era before ffp didn't even reach a CL final so you can forget him
 
What A Waster said:
Nowhere near a discussion about best manager ever?
Nowhere near? Really?

That's ridiculous.

He's won 11 out of 14 league titles, 3 champions leagues, including 2 of them as trebles, a domestic treble with man city. His teams have set points records in all the leagues he's managed in.

But he should be nowhere near the discussion?

Ridiculous.

He's right in the mix
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No not at all !

Until he achieves something that he shouldnt be able to at a club he shouldnt be ! Its arguable that he should have won more champions leagues with Barce, he failed in Europe with some outstanding players at Bayern and has taken what 6 years to win in Europe with the money is no object club

If Arsenal won the league this season ( and i know they didnt ) but that from Arteta would have eclipsed anything Pep has won in his time
 
If Pep went to Chelsea instead of Man City then they'd be the ones having all this success. There comes a point where it doesn't matter how much you can spend. If one team is able to spend £5m on players whilst the other can spend £50m then it'll be a massive difference but if those numbers are £300m and £500m then there really isn't much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Man City are where they are because they're run better than the other 'big' clubs in this league and they have the best manager in the world. If Pep went to Man United next season then he'd build a dynasty there as well.
 
Daz965 said:
Exactly. It takes a lot more than just money to create a successful team. Look at PSG . Chelsea anarl . I'll be interested to see how Pochettino gets on with that lot. And of course Newcastle with their newly acquired riches. Absolutely no guarantees there either
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I think Poch will do very well there because he's the type of coach who gets a buy in from the players and improves them.

I agree with the first part of the post. Money doesn't make a team. Just signing the best you can doesn't guarantee anything
 
Another Everton Fan said:
If Pep went to Chelsea instead of Man City then they'd be the ones having all this success. There comes a point where it doesn't matter how much you can spend.
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If your whole system relies of each player doing a job, then it does matter. If he went to United, you reckon silly arse De Gea is coming out from his touchline? Or Woug Wheghorst is scoring 50 goals a year?
 
Toronado said:
At Porto before all of that he won with a club and a team that arguably should not have stood a chance that negates anything after thats regardless of Inter success which was plenty impressive
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This is true. I think Mourinho is an excellent manager. Or was. Probably still is tbf. But done his best work when with an unfancied bunch. He made Chelsea into a great team and they won 2 leagues brilliantly.
My point was just because there's "unlimited" funds doesn't guarantee it. In the era Mourinho went to Chelsea there was no FFP and they could and did spend what they want but it didn't bring them CL success under him.
So whoever it was saying "put Mourinho and x,y,z manager in that position and they'd do the same" isn't correct imo, because we have empirical evidence of Mourinho not doing that.
The Situation said:
He was done by a Ghost Goal in a semi-final mind.
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Yeah, bad decision. They didn't score over the two legs though.
Toronado said:
No not at all !

Until he achieves something that he shouldnt be able to at a club he shouldnt be ! Its arguable that he should have won more champions leagues with Barce, he failed in Europe with some outstanding players at Bayern and has taken what 6 years to win in Europe with the money is no object club

If Arsenal won the league this season ( and i know they didnt ) but that from Arteta would have eclipsed anything Pep has won in his time
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He won 2 out of 4 with Barca. 50% win ratio. Does any other managers get held against such high standards?

In 14 seasons of management he has won 3 European Cups. I'm not sure there's anybody with a better record who has managed for 14 seasons or more
 
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TheStinger said:
Won 2 champions leagues already. Give him an actual BILLION to spend over 5 years, and he'd have get ran over on the way to training not to win it again.
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He spent almost £400m at Man United and made them worse! Mourinho has the highest transfer spend of any manager ever yet he’s far from the most successful. Admittedly Pep is second but has won a shit load more.
 
TheStinger said:
Newcastle, City and United are going to just sportswash the game in the next few years. Once United are bought out by Qatar, its basically going to be a very very distant top 3 in this country. And the FA has allowed it to happen. Makes you hope they all fuck off to the Super League.
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The super league is dead. Only Real Madrid and Barca left in it now. Everybody else in the original lot has pulled out.

Also the plan was never to leave domestic leagues but play in that as well as the domestic leagues. That's why they resigned from uefa and not their domestic leagues
 
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TheStinger said:
If your whole system relies of each player doing a job, then it does matter. If he went to United, you reckon silly arse De Gea is coming out from his touchline? Or Woug Wheghorst is scoring 50 goals a year?
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He'd just replace them with the outrageous wealth that Man United have. Pep also sees more in players that others don't and even then it's not like he's played the same one system forever, he's constantly innovating and you only have to look at the switch to inverted full-backs this season to see that whilst I doubt many people saw Ake at LB or Stones at CM 12 months ago yet they're instrumental.
 
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