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The Pep myth

I seem to have had a post deleted.
chunkyshitehawk53 said:
So you don’t think that he hasn’t really delivered in the champions league?
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He's a managerial genius. Who has been better than him in his era. His record and achievements consistently stand out amongst the rest as does his style of play. Not winning the Champions League more shouldn't detract from that. It's base as fck.

If he was sacked there isn't a replacement out there where you'd say it was an upgrade.
 
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Mackem00 said:
I seem to have had a post deleted.

He's a managerial genius. Who has been better than him in his era. His record and achievements consistently stand out amongst the rest as does his style of play. Not winning the Champions League more shouldn't detract from that. It's base as fck.

If he was sacked there isn't a replacement out there where you'd say it was an upgrade.
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I think that’s correct

I’d still say that he’s not delivered what he would expect to have. Zidane delivered 3 CLs in a row for example

I have no idea why you had a post deleted
 
MackneyHackem said:
So are all the other players, coaches and teams that compete in it.
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Obviously. My point is that it boils down to very few games when anything can happen. You only win the CL if you get to and win the final, one game on a given date during the year. Compare that to the league where the best team wins overall.
 
The Champions League thing is a funny one - Real Madrid have won 5 Champions League in the last 10 years but only 3 league titles. Fergie won 13 league titles but only 2 Champions Leagues. Pep clearly hasn't delivered in the Champions League - and can certainly be accused of overthinking big games - but I think the emphasis on his/their failures in the Champions League is harsh.

I don't think the argument that he was brought in to win it and has underperformed by not winning is correct. He was brought in to dominate and they have. They were Premier League contenders alongside Chelsea, Spurs and Man United when he took over and are now the undisputed top team. He has the same financial resource availabile as Mancini and Pellegrini who won 1 title each and finished in 66 points - 15 behind Leicester - in Pellegrini's last season. Is the relative financial power City have any different to what Man United had in the 90s?
 
chunkyshitehawk53 said:
I think that’s correct

I’d still say that he’s not delivered what he would expect to have. Zidane delivered 3 CLs in a row for example

I have no idea why you had a post deleted
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Think that proves the point really. Zidane has 3 champions league wins under his belt and other than his name I doubt any top club would be banging down the door to have him as their next manager.
Guardiola teams are always there or thereabouts in the latter stages of the Champions league. You can't ask for much more than that in that particular cup competition.
 
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If Arteta wins the league with Arsenal this year its arguably more impressive than any title that Pep has won !

Pep has always had outstanding players at every club in every league

Arteta has managed this Arsenal team to a point really quick and really well to a point of being in charge of the league this season
 
Toronado said:
If Arteta wins the league with Arsenal this year its arguably more impressive than any title that Pep has won !

Pep has always had outstanding players at every club in every league

Arteta has managed this Arsenal team to a point really quick and really well to a point of being in charge of the league this season
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Ranieri's Leicester premier league win is better than anything any other manager has achieved.
 
Toronado said:
If Arteta wins the league with Arsenal this year its arguably more impressive than any title that Pep has won !

Pep has always had outstanding players at every club in every league

Arteta has managed this Arsenal team to a point really quick and really well to a point of being in charge of the league this season
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I’d have to agree, there is no doubt pep is a superb coach who takes teams to a level that 99% teams can’t touch, winning leagues with 100 points and scoring goals for fun, but he’s had every thing he could possibly ask for at his disposal
 
chunkyshitehawk53 said:
I’m sure I’ll get tons of abuse for this, so I’ll caveat in advance. He’s clearly a top coach. This is more a “is he as good as he thinks he is?” post

it’s now 10 years since he won the champions league. Despite having pretty much unlimited money at City and coaching Bayern, one of the biggest clubs on the planet

He got somewhat fortunate with Barca as he inherited arguably the best player ever in his prime

look at his City numbers. He’s been great domestically. But he should be when you look at what he’s bought. The transfer fees are from memory, so tell me I’m wrong

Ederson £35m (one of the highest fees ever at the time)
Walker £50m
Mendy £50m (even without the news he’s been crap)
Cancelo £40m+
Dias, Stones, Ake, Laporte at a combined £220m ish
Rodri £60m
De Bruyne £57m
Silva £35m
Jesus £27m
Mahrez £60m
Grealish £100m
Torres £25m

there will be more. Probably only one looks a shocker, but given the money surely he has to win more?

who has he sold at a profit? Sane?

who has he developed? Foden?

I’ll get pelters, but 10 years since a CL. With that money. He’s not the genius he thinks he is?
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It's a good point.

domestically he has won the lot but as you say and having spent so much money he has to move on and win something internationally ie the CL and World Club Cup.

He hasn't done the latter so has unfinished business and as you say people may question his ability.

good post.
 
Pep really doesn’t like making substitutions when things are tight. He left it until the 87th minute against Everton to change things when it was clear at half time it wasn’t working.

He’s a great manager but is very stubborn, he won’t admit he’s got it wrong and needs to change it.
 
chunkyshitehawk53 said:
I’m sure I’ll get tons of abuse for this, so I’ll caveat in advance. He’s clearly a top coach. This is more a “is he as good as he thinks he is?” post

it’s now 10 years since he won the champions league. Despite having pretty much unlimited money at City and coaching Bayern, one of the biggest clubs on the planet

He got somewhat fortunate with Barca as he inherited arguably the best player ever in his prime

look at his City numbers. He’s been great domestically. But he should be when you look at what he’s bought. The transfer fees are from memory, so tell me I’m wrong

Ederson £35m (one of the highest fees ever at the time)
Walker £50m
Mendy £50m (even without the news he’s been crap)
Cancelo £40m+
Dias, Stones, Ake, Laporte at a combined £220m ish
Rodri £60m
De Bruyne £57m
Silva £35m
Jesus £27m
Mahrez £60m
Grealish £100m
Torres £25m

there will be more. Probably only one looks a shocker, but given the money surely he has to win more?

who has he sold at a profit? Sane?

who has he developed? Foden?

I’ll get pelters, but 10 years since a CL. With that money. He’s not the genius he thinks he is?
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Great coach
Pros - has revolutionised football in Britain
Negs -been out thought a few times in CL semis and finals
Comes across as a too bloke
 
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