Sunderland till I die Season 2

[Grumpy Old Man]

How would we not be due compensation? He was under 23 and had been here for a few years.

"Where a professional player, under the age of 24, has been offered a new contract by his club (subject to certain requirements that the offer must meet set out in Rule 64.3 of the Football League Rules) and he rejects that offer in order to take up the opportunity to sign for another club, compensation will be payable."

It wasn't a domestic transfer. There is compensation from a UEFA scale, but it's much lower than in a domestic transfer.

 

[kildaremackem]

Thing is - any club that is relegated will make losses - cos contracts take years to run down. That's why the para payments were introduced.

If you choose to use that money for something else, (as SD/CM did in buying the club) you better get promoted in season one or else the roof will start to fall in.

It's that rationale that puts me in the "he wanted to flip it" camp.

they used trhe papra moeny to cleaer a club debt..ot anything else..and the club det was due in the august..they had literally no choice..
and flippers dont usually let a business run at a loss during their time in chatrge..which these guys are happy to do..

 

[Chunky Dunky]

Love how quick everyone is to side with methven based on a quick snippet of a meeting. The bloke works in PR and knows how to use things like that to his benefit. The scene at the side of the pitch was because he was in the moment and wanted to make a statement for himself

I was surprised how well he came across too. But the most shocking thing for me was that lass in SAFC marketing ridiculing the idea of us getting 40k for the Boxing Day game.

She was meant to sell us, promote us, drive our attendances / profile up, yet on a major documentary program she dissed us. If that doesn't show you where the real 'toxic culture' at our club is, nothing will. Multiple owners / managers / players and massive amounts of money put into the club over the last decade, and in that one snapshot it is clear why it never resulted in anything solid or permanent. The backroom staff don't believe or care, they just 'work' their 40 hours per week and collect the money. No enthusiasm, no commitment, no belief.

 

[SAFC11]

I was surprised how well he came across too. But the most shocking thing for me was that lass in SAFC marketing ridiculing the idea of us getting 40k for the Boxing Day game.

She was meant to sell us, promote us, drive our attendances / profile up, yet on a major documentary program she dissed us. If that doesn't show you where the real 'toxic culture' at our club is, nothing will. Multiple owners / managers / players and massive amounts of money put into the club over the last decade, and in that one snapshot it is clear why it never resulted in anything solid or permanent. The backroom staff don't believe or care, they just 'work' their 40 hours per week and collect the money. No enthusiasm, no commitment, no belief.

I dont think there was much wrong in saying 40k would be difficult. It had been over a year and a half since we last went over 40k. Perhaps could have made that point better but it will have been an immediate reaction. The gift of football also added 2k+ onto the attendance, which was a fan initiative. Also Bradford selling out when most away sides have brought poor followings.
Also most people to work there hours and go home, because they have shit to deal with there as well. As long as they are putting their shift in when they are there thats what matters, but we didnt get to see that as it was the Methven show. Even having a microphone on him at matches etc, was strategic by him to paint an image.

 

[Happy_Layabout]

they used trhe papra moeny to cleaer a club debt..ot anything else..and the club det was due in the august..they had literally no choice..
and flippers dont usually let a business run at a loss during their time in chatrge..which these guys are happy to do..

Ellis sold based on stipulating money to him and the debt being cleared. If they had covered that total cost with their money then para money would be there to do what its designed to do - allow a gentle landing into a lower division.

CM shaking his head saying "we are still losing money" indicates they thought they could get to break even without para money.

It was a gamble - get promotion in year one, sell at a big profit, pay back the para money and walk away with a big profit on their initial 15M. A big leveraging of their £15M, using para money.

 

[rentaghost]

I was surprised how well he came across too. But the most shocking thing for me was that lass in SAFC marketing ridiculing the idea of us getting 40k for the Boxing Day game.

She was meant to sell us, promote us, drive our attendances / profile up, yet on a major documentary program she dissed us. If that doesn't show you where the real 'toxic culture' at our club is, nothing will. Multiple owners / managers / players and massive amounts of money put into the club over the last decade, and in that one snapshot it is clear why it never resulted in anything solid or permanent. The backroom staff don't believe or care, they just 'work' their 40 hours per week and collect the money. No enthusiasm, no commitment, no belief.

It’s strange how SAFC managed to get fantastic season ticket sales, an average of 31000 through the gate in league 1 and a 46000 league record. We managed to do all that despite having a marketing team that couldn’t be arsed? Just perhaps they could be arsed, perhaps they did a great job that year. Perhaps the evidence is right in front of you rather than accepting a couple of edited minutes as being a true reflection.

 

[Sallycinamon]

It’s strange how SAFC managed to get fantastic season ticket sales, an average of 31000 through the gate in league 1 and a 46000 league record. We managed to do all that despite having a marketing team that couldn’t be arsed? Just perhaps they could be arsed, perhaps they did a great job that year. Perhaps the evidence is right in front of you rather than accepting a couple of edited minutes as being a true reflection.

Or perhaps Methven knocked the place into shape and drove the campaigns himself?

I dont think there was much wrong in saying 40k would be difficult. It had been over a year and a half since we last went over 40k. Perhaps could have made that point better but it will have been an immediate reaction. The gift of football also added 2k+ onto the attendance, which was a fan initiative. Also Bradford selling out when most away sides have brought poor followings.
Also most people to work there hours and go home, because they have shit to deal with there as well. As long as they are putting their shift in when they are there thats what matters, but we didnt get to see that as it was the Methven show. Even having a microphone on him at matches etc, was strategic by him to paint an image.

But she didn’t say it would be difficult though did she? I think “not a cat in hells chance” was the phrase she used. And how emphatically wrong was she proved?!

Imagine yourself as the club’s owner coming up with the idea of starting a marketing campaign to get 40,000 to a match and break the league record. You’d be looking at your marketing and sales team to step up to the mark with drive and enthusiasm, with a ‘let’s do this’ attitude, determined to make it happen. Not with a ‘not a cat in hells chance’ attitude, belittling the whole campaign. No wonder she didn’t last long.

Folk having a go at a Methven for demanding the figures for half-time and wanting the glory of announcing it on the pitch all for himself. He was the face of the campaign, he was the driving force behind it, he was the one asking the fans to turn up all the way through the campaign - isn’t it right that he’s the one to announce the figure and to thank the fans for meeting his call to arms? Good PR shown IMO.

 

[Oli Wagkz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1247547935522504704

 

[stretch]

Shocking treatment of Sophie like

 

[S.S.R..]

Stewart Donald: "I sat there and said to myself, 'In my business, If I gave somebody an instruction, it'd be done in 20 minutes'..."

"...and then I sat there and thought 'This is my business'."

Good grief.

 

[citybythesea]

The bottom line why the club is in league one and the finances were screwed was to poor recruitment and over paying on players. Not any marketing or PR department ffs.
If the team’s playing terrible there’s no amount of upselling, marketing, promotion , PR will change that. Conversely if the team are playing well the games sell themselves.
Over the years Sunderland have over-spent on players we couldn’t afford.....pure and simple. Darren bent £16.5m, Asamoah Gyan £13.2m Stephen Fletcher £12m Jack Rodwell £10m Adam Johnson £10m , Craig Gordon £9m , Jozy Altidore £8.5m......etc etc

These transfer fees are astronomical enough before the wages and other fees are considered. If we couldn’t have afforded these players we shouldn’t have bought them.

 

[sir rowell cummins]

It wasn't a domestic transfer. There is compensation from a UEFA scale, but it's much lower than in a domestic transfer.

Is true but balancing that with the cost benefits of promotion ....

Shocking treatment of Sophie like

She needs me to comfort her

Or perhaps Methven knocked the place into shape and drove the campaigns himself?


But she didn’t say it would be difficult though did she? I think “not a cat in hells chance” was the phrase she used. And how emphatically wrong was she proved?!

Imagine yourself as the club’s owner coming up with the idea of starting a marketing campaign to get 40,000 to a match and break the league record. You’d be looking at your marketing and sales team to step up to the mark with drive and enthusiasm, with a ‘let’s do this’ attitude, determined to make it happen. Not with a ‘not a cat in hells chance’ attitude, belittling the whole campaign. No wonder she didn’t last long.

Folk having a go at a Methven for demanding the figures for half-time and wanting the glory of announcing it on the pitch all for himself. He was the face of the campaign, he was the driving force behind it, he was the one asking the fans to turn up all the way through the campaign - isn’t it right that he’s the one to announce the figure and to thank the fans for meeting his call to arms? Good PR shown IMO.

Some of that is true. You have to bring your team with you though. The power of the unit is key and it seems they thought he was an arrogant cock end. Which he clearly is. He has some nous and drive he just drives people away at the same time.

 

[safcpauluk]

I've heard people and pundits on the radio saying Sunderland should have kept maja, how the hell were we to match the 50 odd grand a week and the million pound agents fee? His agent told him not to sign he'll get him a move to France.

 

[LD19SAFC]

I've heard people and pundits on the radio saying Sunderland should have kept maja, how the hell were we to match the 50 odd grand a week and the million pound agents fee? His agent told him not to sign he'll get him a move to France.

There’s not a chance that Maja is on 50K a week man. He probably picks that up in a month but definitely not every week.

 

[OzzyMac]

There’s not a chance that Maja is on 50K a week man. He probably picks that up in a month but definitely not every week.

Doesn't really natter though does it. His agent was always going to push for a move away to pick up another fee.

Only way that will ever be stopped is if players are made to pay the agents fees themselves but if that were the case they'd just ask for bigger signing bonuses. There will be some casualties when football re starts from Covid19, lets hope that agents are one of them.

 

[riffraff]

Doesn't really natter though does it. His agent was always going to push for a move away to pick up another fee.

Only way that will ever be stopped is if players are made to pay the agents fees themselves but if that were the case they'd just ask for bigger signing bonuses. There will be some casualties when football re starts from Covid19, lets hope that agents are one of them.

Regarding agents fees: What needs to start the ball rolling is that clubs should be forced by govt to publish agents fees per deal and not a single end of year agents fee total.
After this furloughing stuff I reckon the govt will have a small window with the whip hand to push for this having bailed clubs out. Once the public sees for themselves what agents are taking from the game then public pressure on players to pay em themselves or use pfa agents could do the world of good to the games image.
Unfortunately I think the need for stupid young men to be able to use the words “my agent” around equally stupid young women will prevail.

 

[Church]

Or perhaps Methven knocked the place into shape and drove the campaigns himself?


But she didn’t say it would be difficult though did she? I think “not a cat in hells chance” was the phrase she used. And how emphatically wrong was she proved?!

Imagine yourself as the club’s owner coming up with the idea of starting a marketing campaign to get 40,000 to a match and break the league record. You’d be looking at your marketing and sales team to step up to the mark with drive and enthusiasm, with a ‘let’s do this’ attitude, determined to make it happen. Not with a ‘not a cat in hells chance’ attitude, belittling the whole campaign. No wonder she didn’t last long.

Folk having a go at a Methven for demanding the figures for half-time and wanting the glory of announcing it on the pitch all for himself. He was the face of the campaign, he was the driving force behind it, he was the one asking the fans to turn up all the way through the campaign - isn’t it right that he’s the one to announce the figure and to thank the fans for meeting his call to arms? Good PR shown IMO.

Have to agree with you. Having started the series I thought (and posted on here) that I thought Charlie was full of shit, but now that I've gone through it I believe CM and SD were fully committed to making it work. They had a mountain of historical shit to clean up, and as we saw by example that marketing woman, the staff didn't believe in the cause. You cant make a success of the journey unless people buy into it, and she and others didn't. And the comments by CM after the Checkatrade were bang on - so many times that season having done well in the first half, we came out in the second to sit back and defend and it resulted in too many draws.

Two things for me have fucked us:

1. Jack Ross made a mess of the big chance we had of getting promoted (players like Catt's and McGeady were aces in the pack)

2. The new owners just didn't have enough money.

No complaints though with CM trying to drag a lacklustre backroom staff by its boots. God knows what state it's all in now though facing year 3 in League 1 and trying to sell up.

I've heard people and pundits on the radio saying Sunderland should have kept maja, how the hell were we to match the 50 odd grand a week and the million pound agents fee? His agent told him not to sign he'll get him a move to France.

With the benefit on hindsight (I know), given we only got 1.5m euros for him, we should have just kept him. Even if it meant keeping him in the reserves for a short period whilst he sorted his attitude out and tuned back into playing for us. We could even have offered him a mega end of season bonus for staying and scoring instead of the millions we overspent on Grigg. It's a bloody nightmare though trying to run a club and keep players happy, as the good ones immediately want to look elsewhere and their agents make things very hard for club's.
Urggg. Anyway, I'm as sick as chips now having watched that Checkatrade day again - worse now than at the time seeing how we have regressed since. brought back the memories of my lad howling in tears when Portsmouth scored their second, then the same again after the penalties.

 

[cluffy]

Regarding agents fees: What needs to start the ball rolling is that clubs should be forced by govt to publish agents fees per deal and not a single end of year agents fee total.
After this furloughing stuff I reckon the govt will have a small window with the whip hand to push for this having bailed clubs out. Once the public sees for themselves what agents are taking from the game then public pressure on players to pay em themselves or use pfa agents could do the world of good to the games image.
Unfortunately I think the need for stupid young men to be able to use the words “my agent” around equally stupid young women will prevail.

Maybe.
Look, agents are obviously horrible but some clubs can work with them and some clubs cant.
We'd be better off claiming to be a small club like Norwich or Palace than constantly trying to paint ourselves as "big" imo. They, and other clubs, manage to not sign Rodwells and Griggs who capsize clubs of our stature

 

[DJ Doubt]

Looking forward to the slow realisation from a lot of our fans that Stewart Donald is, in fact, and human being and not Dick Darstardly

I wasn't far off.

Some thoughts on S2...

I think SD is genuine. I think he wants the club to succeed as much as we do. However, he is not the ideal person to be running our club. Not by a long way.

CM was a mixed bag. A ruthless attitude was always needed to have any chance of turning things around. Those gormless staff members were far more infuriating than CM to me. That lass looked like she had no belief and everything she was asked to do was a hardship.

CM is a businessman and finance is his area of expertise. In that sense, he did his job. There's no doubt in my mind that they had a huge culture shock coming from Oxfordshire to the North East, and bit off far more than they could chew. The lack of due diligence was apparent.
They should've had the foresight to see that if Maja started scoring goals, it was going to be an issue. Easy to say in hindsight but they should've got his contract sewn up during pre-season. Maybe the agent was already at work? Who knows. Perhaps there was a missed window of opportunity when CM was f***ing around with the PA system.

They needed to be given a proper crash course in the clubs recent history. Stuff like the cryo-chamber; If they knew their onions, they'd know that Big Sam was big into his sports science and used them a lot. His tenure was probably the last time the team played well on a consistent basis. The fact that they didn't even entertain the idea of using the facility is a worry.

Another thing that crossed my mind; Did they not consider bidding the Grigg money on another striker? Utter madness to jump up the bids like they did without exploring other avenues.

Overall, I really enjoyed it. Got proper emotional about the two Wembley trips. My GF isn't interested in football at all but she loved it as well.

 

[riffraff]

I wasn't far off.

Some thoughts on S2...

I think SD is genuine. I think he wants the club to succeed as much as we do. However, he is not the ideal person to be running our club. Not by a long way.

CM was a mixed bag. A ruthless attitude was always needed to have any chance of turning things around. Those gormless staff members were far more infuriating than CM to me. That lass looked like she had no belief and everything she was asked to do was a hardship.

CM is a businessman and finance is his area of expertise. In that sense, he did his job. There's no doubt in my mind that they had a huge culture shock coming from Oxfordshire to the North East, and bit off far more than they could chew. The lack of due diligence was apparent.
They should've had the foresight to see that if Maja started scoring goals, it was going to be an issue. Easy to say in hindsight but they should've got his contract sewn up during pre-season. Maybe the agent was already at work? Who knows. Perhaps there was a missed window of opportunity when CM was f***ing around with the PA system.

They needed to be given a proper crash course in the clubs recent history. Stuff like the cryo-chamber; If they knew their onions, they'd know that Big Sam was big into his sports science and used them a lot. His tenure was probably the last time the team played well on a consistent basis. The fact that they didn't even entertain the idea of using the facility is a worry.

Another thing that crossed my mind; Did they not consider bidding the Grigg money on another striker? Utter madness to jump up the bids like they did without exploring other avenues.

Overall, I really enjoyed it. Got proper emotional about the two Wembley trips. My GF isn't interested in football at all but she loved it as well.

Maja was an ex safc player in preseason. He’d been released by the previous regime. He’d seen what a fuckin shambles it was behind the scenes for himself. He came back and resigned when the new regime realised we had no forwards for training and friendlies. Presumably he had no better offers on the table.
Knowing all this and people spouting off should know it, who can blame him for taking a top flight offer in a beautiful French City with better money and better weather. He knew safc were flying by the seat of their/his pants last season as was proved as soon as he left.
At least we now know that the new regime are as incompetent regarding football related stuff as the old.