Spinners simply not good enough!

[rentaghost]

Bess is 23 yet had so much more bad press.

Like he was just expected because he's a spinner to come and tear it up in India. Cos he'd got a fifer in South Africa

That's unfair on him. Like it's alien for pope Sibley Crawley so their let off but as these tracks are tailor made for spinners it's them to blame.

Leach has bowled really well in this series but he's not superhuman.

We saw in the first test that Ashwin started bowling bad as Nadeem and Sundar bowled terribly at the other end.

You need a bowling partner in any country to create pressure. Leach has had Moeen and Bess who haven't.

I know you are after a bit of balance but you can’t give these players free passes either. Yes it’s a learning experience and yes Bess has been managed poorly but you expect a test match spin bowler to be able to at least put it in the right place. He deserves criticism and if he’s good enough and strong enough to come back from it then we will have a good test match player.

 

[Salem Street South]

It's been the highlight of my morning!

Positives: lie-in tomorrow. Think that could be it.

Cooked some Cumberland sausage last night for tonight’s tea and seeing your post persuaded me to have some now in a sarnie, positives are thin on the ground but it’s definitely one

 

[Voice of fair play]

Our spinners are to blame for not having had a 50 run partnership since the 5th wicket fell in the first innings of the first test.

How the fuck does that work?

It's lazy yet again.

We've won the toss in 8/9 tests in India and the spinners are being blamed for both series losses.

It's obvious our spinners aren't Jadeja and Ashwin who's are in world cricket.

Patel averaged 13 I believe in Durham so clearly showed talent before this.
Where's the thread about every batsman bar root being shit against spin.

Yeah of course very valid points, I didn’t start the thread to have a go at the spinners over the batsman as of course you are correct in your above points.

Was merely saying after the first test India have turned the rest of the series into a spin bowlers competition and once they did that our spinners bowlers were never going to be good enough to compete with theirs!

 

[TheRey]

You must be logged on to see external links

Excellent Dobell article on Bess' struggles.

 

[NorthCountryBoy]

He’s not as bad as we have seen in this match and not as good as his record suggests. He has though been badly managed. He’s been dropped and seen the selectors choose 4 seamers on a raging turner rather than play him. He has then seen the management team beg for Ali to change his arrangements rather than pkay him. His confidence is shot. With a more experienced player I would say get a grip but he’s still a young lad.

I don’t think the selectors can be blamed for him losing form (and therefore losing confidence). He was bowling regular full tosses in the second innings at Chennai so the unraveling was already there.

I was fine with dropping him, but in hindsight it was a test too early as the next game was on such a dust bowl.

 

[scaly_piscine]

Yeah of course very valid points, I didn’t start the thread to have a go at the spinners over the batsman as of course you are correct in your above points.

Was merely saying after the first test India have turned the rest of the series into a spin bowlers competition and once they did that our spinners bowlers were never going to be good enough to compete with theirs!

It's not just about the bowling but the batting. If you bat as badly as England have against spin then you lose. We barely scraped over 200 once in 7 innings.

 

[Paddy O'Dors]

You must be logged on to see external links

Excellent Dobell article on Bess' struggles.

Winning two tosses and batting absolutely shite in both games was the biggest undoing. Bess was poor but the whole handling of the situation wasn't great tbh. He doesn't deserve to be a sole scapegoat, plenty in the batting line up need to have a look at themselves.

 

[SuperMarcoRowell]

Leach has cemented himself as premier spinner, Root showed Bess how to land the ball on a good length, sorry but if you can’t get the basics right you shouldn’t be anywhere near the test team. I think Bess took a five fer against Sri Lanka and it was the most fortunate five wickets I’ve ever seen he got them with long hops full tosses and catches on the rope. He even looked embarrassed himself.

 

[vinegar hill]

English spinners not as good as Indian spinners shocker.

 

[The Rat]

He will be one of our best players as the conditions has totally suited spin bowlers as opposed to batsman and he is the best spin bowler we have in amongst a sub standard bunch imo


Bess is never a international bowler in a million miles imo, the 5 wickets he got when the Sri Lanka got themselves out gave a false impression, think the England set up aware of that too, just few other options sadly

Nah Leach is a good bowler, his record before this series was good

on Bess, why does everyone forget south africa

I say this a lot, but did you genuinelly not watch that series? I watched every ball and he was brilliant

I know you are after a bit of balance but you can’t give these players free passes either. Yes it’s a learning experience and yes Bess has been managed poorly but you expect a test match spin bowler to be able to at least put it in the right place. He deserves criticism and if he’s good enough and strong enough to come back from it then we will have a good test match player.

He was poor in that last test

but there is massive revionism here like on this thread

go back and watch the capetown test, he was landing it in the same spot 6 balls out of 6

People may not rate him, but there now seems to be an attempt to pretend that didnt happen

it did!

I don’t think the selectors can be blamed for him losing form (and therefore losing confidence). He was bowling regular full tosses in the second innings at Chennai so the unraveling was already there.

I was fine with dropping him, but in hindsight it was a test too early as the next game was on such a dust bowl.

This is probably fair

he should have played the next test, and he might have gone OK

Players lose form, but there now seems to be an attempt to protrary Bess as someone who has never been able to bowl tightly or maidens

its just not true, he did in South Africa, big reason we won over there

Leach is number 1 from now on, but lets not rewrite history

There is a common thing in english cricket which is to dismiss our achievements, playdown the opposition, but when we lose, go crazy and throw the baby out with the bathwater

does my head in

the idea now is that the 6 tests away from home we won dont count for anything, because we lost the last 3