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Southampton spying compendium thread

wev17 said:
Whether Southampton actually benefited from the spying is irrelevant. That’s the part many people seem to miss. The issue is that they spied in the first place, so it’s reasonable to infer they believed it gave them an advantage.

The judgement had to conclude Southampton gained an unfair advantage and, in doing so, cheated us out of the final. That’s why we progress. It’s really not complicated — read the full judgement, because that’s essentially what it says.

My own view is that people keep arguing you don’t gain an advantage from watching training sessions. But Southampton’s coach chose to do it at least three times, so he clearly thought it was worthwhile and beneficial to them.

And the argument that we dominated Southampton in the first game but failed to take our chances, therefore proving they gained no benefit, makes no sense. By that logic, would cheating only have been proven if they’d beaten us 5-0?

No one can know exactly how they benefited. Maybe they saw a set-piece routine we would otherwise have scored from. Maybe they noticed Hackney wasn’t training and adjusted their setup accordingly to limit our threat. It’s all beside the point.

They cheated. Simple as that and we HAD to progress.
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lots of ifs. the fact is southampton cheated and not for the first time. that to me is the end of case.

THEY ARE CHEATS AND AS THE SAYING GOES, CHEATS SHOULD NEVER PROSPER.
 

The Little General said:
I know you will disagree, but the only fair way was to restart the whole of the play offs with the 7th placed team included and postpone the final till a later date.
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Perhaps I a different season but when would you plat the games? There is a world cup in a matter of a few weeks and Hull have already played 48 league related games this season, should they have to play potentially 3 more because of Southampton?Millwall get a second bite of the playoff cherry having already lost?
And where do you play them? Wembley is booked up.
The only real solution is the one that has been put in place.
 
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wev17 said:
Whether Southampton actually benefited from the spying is irrelevant. That’s the part many people seem to miss. The issue is that they spied in the first place, so it’s reasonable to infer they believed it gave them an advantage.

The judgement had to conclude Southampton gained an unfair advantage and, in doing so, cheated us out of the final. That’s why we progress. It’s really not complicated — read the full judgement, because that’s essentially what it says.

My own view is that people keep arguing you don’t gain an advantage from watching training sessions. But Southampton’s coach chose to do it at least three times, so he clearly thought it was worthwhile and beneficial to them.

And the argument that we dominated Southampton in the first game but failed to take our chances, therefore proving they gained no benefit, makes no sense. By that logic, would cheating only have been proven if they’d beaten us 5-0?

No one can know exactly how they benefited. Maybe they saw a set-piece routine we would otherwise have scored from. Maybe they noticed Hackney wasn’t training and adjusted their setup accordingly to limit our threat. It’s all beside the point.

They cheated. Simple as that and we HAD to progress.
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Spot on.

I also like that the punishment was so harsh (but fair), because it will act as a deterrent, this shouldn't happen again.
 
scott934 said:
Spot on.

I also like that the punishment was so harsh (but fair), because it will act as a deterrent, this shouldn't happen again.
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Yep, the crime absolutely isn’t worth it due to the potential punishment if caught. I can’t imagine anyone else would attempt this in the future.
 
wev17 said:
Whether Southampton actually benefited from the spying is irrelevant. That’s the part many people seem to miss. The issue is that they spied in the first place, so it’s reasonable to infer they believed it gave them an advantage.

The judgement had to conclude Southampton gained an unfair advantage and, in doing so, cheated us out of the final. That’s why we progress. It’s really not complicated — read the full judgement, because that’s essentially what it says.

My own view is that people keep arguing you don’t gain an advantage from watching training sessions. But Southampton’s coach chose to do it at least three times, so he clearly thought it was worthwhile and beneficial to them.

And the argument that we dominated Southampton in the first game but failed to take our chances, therefore proving they gained no benefit, makes no sense. By that logic, would cheating only have been proven if they’d beaten us 5-0?

No one can know exactly how they benefited. Maybe they saw a set-piece routine we would otherwise have scored from. Maybe they noticed Hackney wasn’t training and adjusted their setup accordingly to limit our threat. It’s all beside the point.

They cheated. Simple as that and we HAD to progress.
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Fully understood.

I remember the wrangling back in 1990 when we lost to Swindon. Everyone said that disqualification was harsh too with the Visitors 13 miles up the road saying they should go up with the play-offs voided.

We beat them over the two legs, end of.

Same logic here, do you promote Millwall who were beaten by Hull?

Also, do you promote Hull without a contest when we don't know what difference the spying meant. Set pieces stalled, draw rather than win fist leg then win rather than draw second leg?

It's the best of a bad situation.

It wasn't just a person with a notebook or taking a quick picture.

It was someone trying to film your training until he was chased.
 
Norton said:
Perhaps I a different season but when would you plat the games? There is a world cup in a matter of a few weeks and Hull have already played 48 league related games this season, should they have to play potentially 3 more because of Southampton?Millwall get a second bite of the playoff cherry having already lost?
And where do you play them? Wembley is booked up.
The only real solution is the one that has been put in place.
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I get all that and it may be not actually be possible, but it would still be the fairest way forward. Effectively they have ejected them out of the play offs, leaving only 3 teams in it. Technically due to the timing of everything, Hull should automatically be promoted but we all know why that woukd never happen.
 
HellsBells said:
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I suspect they will be on a hiding to nothing.

Will the contact for transferring the player's registration contain an obligation or prohibition that has been breached by these circumstances? I seriously doubt it.

Pity. I didn't know until this week that I hated Southampton. But now that I do, I'm hating with all my heart.
 
HellsBells said:
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Surely he’s got no chance.
Maybe if they had played in the final and won then been kicked out he’d have had a case but Hull could still have beat them had they played. Even without all this spygate carry on they might not have been promoted. Everyone just seems to be assuming it is a forgone conclusion Southampton would go up.
 
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ATS said:
Surely he’s got no chance.
Maybe if they had played in the final and won then been kicked out he’d have had a case but Hull could still have beat them had they played. Even without all this spygate carry on they might not have been promoted. Everyone just seems to be assuming it is a forgone conclusion Southampton would go up.
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I watched a video with a sports lawyer or some such that was discussing the players possibly suing for loss of earnings bonuses etc. he stated that there would be a case but because Southampton had not qualified for the Prem and may have been beaten by Hull the settlement (if any) would be a lot less than any contract stated as it was only a loss of the chance to those earnings. That would only work for them if it was after the play off final and Southampton had then been disqualified and not allowed promotion.
hank williams said:
I can honestly see Southampton gan bust over this the absolute numptys
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What happens if the FA investigation finds its happened in nearly every game since December, does the EFL then revisit it because it was only 3 and give a 2pt deduction for every instance, if so then thats likely relegation because we all know it wasn't just the 3 times (allegedly)
 
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