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Southampton spying compendium thread

seahamstar said:
The level of advantage is (and has to be) irrelevant.
They tried to cheat their way into the play off final (and possibly the play offs in the first place).
No point having a rule if the consequences of breaking it get 'watered down' for whatever reason.

Cheat and lie about it - out.
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The majority view of those ex footballers and managers who have expressed an opinion is that the punishment is excessive.

In addition the decision to put Middlesboro into the final is in itself arbitary. They have benefitted solely because they were the team who were playing Southampton - if it had been Millwall then they would have been in the final. In effect Middlesboro have been given free passage simply because they were playing Southampton.
 

wicketkeeper said:
The majority view of those ex footballers and managers who have expressed an opinion is that the punishment is excessive.

In addition the decision to put Middlesboro into the final is in itself arbitary. They have benefitted solely because they were the team who were playing Southampton - if it had been Millwall then they would have been in the final. In effect Middlesboro have been given free passage simply because they were playing Southampton.
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I disagree (and I'm not just saying that because it's Boro).
It's not a 'free passage' at all.
Boro played Southampton in the semi final.
They broke the rules in the lead up to the semi final against...... Boro, so Boro were unfairly knocked out by the team that cheated - only fair that Boro take the place of the team that broke the rules in order to knock us out.

I also disagree that it's excessive.
A fine would not bother them if they went on to beat Hull and got the premier league riches, a points deduction on their return to the championship still means they ended up (possibly) in the premier league unfairly.

Hopefully, this sanction puts off any other club that thinks it's worth it to cheat their way to success.
It's totally against the principles and values of sport.

Personally, if it turns out that they've cheated their way to the play offs (which is looking likely), I'd like to see them booted down to at least league one.
 
I’m sure I saw that he was assistant coach at FC Koln in 2015 after they were caught spying on another team. Someone’s prob already said that and I’ve missed it.
 
seahamstar said:
I disagree (and I'm not just saying that because it's Boro).
It's not a 'free passage' at all.
Boro played Southampton in the semi final.
They broke the rules in the lead up to the semi final against...... Boro, so Boro were unfairly knocked out by the team that cheated - only fair that Boro take the place of the team that broke the rules in order to knock us out.

I also disagree that it's excessive.
A fine would not bother them if they went on to beat Hull and got the premier league riches, a points deduction on their return to the championship still means they ended up (possibly) in the premier league unfairly.

Hopefully, this sanction puts off any other club that thinks it's worth it to cheat their way to success.
It's totally against the principles and values of sport.

Personally, if it turns out that they've cheated their way to the play offs (which is looking likely), I'd like to see them booted down to at least league one.
Click to expand...

As I said Boro benefiitted from a free passage because they played Southampton. Pure luck.
Hull won their way to the final. Millwall were beaten just like Boro . Unfortunately for them they were not playing Southampton . If they had been it would have been them in the final.
 
Fred said:
@seahamstar if you know of anyone needing a hotel for the next 2 nights then let me know mate. Our lass somehow managed to book up a year in advance for the playoffs last year and just had a call from The Windmill in Cricklewood asking where I am at 🤣
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I don't , sorry.
Thanks for the thought though mate, very thoughtful
wicketkeeper said:
As I said Boro benefiitted from a free passage because they played Southampton. Pure luck.
Hull won their way to the final. Millwall were beaten just like Boro . Unfortunately for them they were not playing Southampton . If they had been it would have been them in the final.
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True.
But then, like we are now (in the final) - if Millwall had played against (and ultimately been cheated by) Southampton then it would have been only right that they would take Southampton's place.
But, they didn't play Southampton - they played (and lost to, presumably fairly) Hull.
It's not luck, or a free pass , or benefitting - it's taking our rightful place after we were cheated by Southampton
 
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wicketkeeper said:
As I said Boro benefiitted from a free passage because they played Southampton. Pure luck.
Hull won their way to the final. Millwall were beaten just like Boro . Unfortunately for them they were not playing Southampton . If they had been it would have been them in the final.
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If Southampton are going to be banned from the game then the options are either giving Hull the automatic ticket to the premier league or allowing Boro to contest the final. After that the only other option is essentially have to replay the entire season given that the cheating was not a one off and other clubs were affected -probably more than the few mentioned, given the comments about the manager pushing staff to spy for him. Unlikely he just did that a couple of times. The ramifications roll onward from that, so then every team could argue it affected them in some vague way.

Best solution to a dreadful situation is playing the game tomorrow. But it was created by Southampton who knew what they were doing so they need to pay that price.
 
jcrossan said:
If Southampton are going to be banned from the game then the options are either giving Hull the automatic ticket to the premier league or allowing Boro to contest the final. After that the only other option is essentially have to replay the entire season given that the cheating was not a one off and other clubs were affected -probably more than the few mentioned, given the comments about the manager pushing staff to spy for him. Unlikely he just did that a couple of times. The ramifications roll onward from that, so then every team could argue it affected them in some vague way.

Best solution to a dreadful situation is playing the game tomorrow. But it was created by Southampton who knew what they were doing so they need to pay that price.
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Cancel the season and start again.No promotions, no relegations but Wolves Burnley and Spuds added to the league😆
@Wednesday 1957
@Visiting owl
 
Whether Southampton actually benefited from the spying is irrelevant. That’s the part many people seem to miss. The issue is that they spied in the first place, so it’s reasonable to infer they believed it gave them an advantage.

The judgement had to conclude Southampton gained an unfair advantage and, in doing so, cheated us out of the final. That’s why we progress. It’s really not complicated — read the full judgement, because that’s essentially what it says.

My own view is that people keep arguing you don’t gain an advantage from watching training sessions. But Southampton’s coach chose to do it at least three times, so he clearly thought it was worthwhile and beneficial to them.

And the argument that we dominated Southampton in the first game but failed to take our chances, therefore proving they gained no benefit, makes no sense. By that logic, would cheating only have been proven if they’d beaten us 5-0?

No one can know exactly how they benefited. Maybe they saw a set-piece routine we would otherwise have scored from. Maybe they noticed Hackney wasn’t training and adjusted their setup accordingly to limit our threat. It’s all beside the point.

They cheated. Simple as that and we HAD to progress.
 
seahamstar said:
I disagree (and I'm not just saying that because it's Boro).
It's not a 'free passage' at all.
Boro played Southampton in the semi final.
They broke the rules in the lead up to the semi final against...... Boro, so Boro were unfairly knocked out by the team that cheated - only fair that Boro take the place of the team that broke the rules in order to knock us out.

I also disagree that it's excessive.
A fine would not bother them if they went on to beat Hull and got the premier league riches, a points deduction on their return to the championship still means they ended up (possibly) in the premier league unfairly.

Hopefully, this sanction puts off any other club that thinks it's worth it to cheat their way to success.
It's totally against the principles and values of sport.

Personally, if it turns out that they've cheated their way to the play offs (which is looking likely), I'd like to see them booted down to at least league one.
Click to expand...
I know you will disagree, but the only fair way was to restart the whole of the play offs with the 7th placed team included and postpone the final till a later date.
 
Fred said:
@seahamstar if you know of anyone needing a hotel for the next 2 nights then let me know mate. Our lass somehow managed to book up a year in advance for the playoffs last year and just had a call from The Windmill in Cricklewood asking where I am at 🤣
Click to expand...
Ive actually used that for graft loads. Bit rough n ready area/bars like.
 
wev17 said:
Whether Southampton actually benefited from the spying is irrelevant. That’s the part many people seem to miss. The issue is that they spied in the first place, so it’s reasonable to infer they believed it gave them an advantage.

The judgement had to conclude Southampton gained an unfair advantage and, in doing so, cheated us out of the final. That’s why we progress. It’s really not complicated — read the full judgement, because that’s essentially what it says.

My own view is that people keep arguing you don’t gain an advantage from watching training sessions. But Southampton’s coach chose to do it at least three times, so he clearly thought it was worthwhile and beneficial to them.

And the argument that we dominated Southampton in the first game but failed to take our chances, therefore proving they gained no benefit, makes no sense. By that logic, would cheating only have been proven if they’d beaten us 5-0?

No one can know exactly how they benefited. Maybe they saw a set-piece routine we would otherwise have scored from. Maybe they noticed Hackney wasn’t training and adjusted their setup accordingly to limit our threat. It’s all beside the point.

They cheated. Simple as that and we HAD to progress.
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Well put, and spot on
 
seahamstar said:
Thank you 👍.
Thing is, if Hull beat us tomorrow then that'll be fine by me - after all this I'm just happy to see that us (Boro) reporting this to the authorities and their cheating being blown wide open is great for the game.

I'd accept a jammy win though
😜
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I'll be cheering yiz on tomorrow.


Come on smoggies!😁🍾🎉
 
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