Some thoughts

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We'd all love to see a return to old fashioned values but it isn't going to happen. And it's the same for all clubs so it can't have had any impact in the alarming slide of our beloved club!

The most ironic thing is that Monty and Dick are the ones cited in the first post of this thread. I've had an interested discussion with them post a match as I'm sure many others have - they are open and honest. Sadly, the fact that most of us would prefer to talk to guys from 40 odd years ago says plenty about how bad things have been for us in recent times, and of course how revered that FA cup win was for all Sunderland fans.
 


I have a mental picture of Rodwell standing in a corner he's painted himself into looking lost and bemused.
 
becs said:
Been to a talk today with Monty and Dick Malone. Just some points I picked up and have been musing.

1) Since the 60’s, Sunderland have never built on success. We’ve had promotions or cup runs, then sold off our best players, failed to replace them, fallen and started again. We need a CEO and back room staff who are committed to achieving and then building further on successes to break this cycle.

2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.

3) Players used to have to work around the club as well as being footballers. When the Northumbria Centre was opened, they’d do their training, then get the rollers out and roll the pitches. Another day they all worked together and laid a footpath. They did DIY jobs around Roker Park painting barriers and stuff. All of that built team spirit and encouraged working together as well as building pride among them for the ground. They’d socialise together and built good friendships. The camaraderie like this doesn’t seem to happen these days which affects team spirit.

4) Boys were not allowed to sign for a club until they were around aged 14. Until then, they played social football in school teams, local leagues etc. Once they signed, they were given jobs and had to work hard for things like new boots and kit. These days academies take on 5-6 year olds and kit them out with everything they need. They don’t have to work hard to achieve things. They miss out on the social football as they are not allowed to play for the school and local leagues. By the time they get to around 15, the big clubs come in and cherry pick the best for their youth set ups. This is why it’s so hard to get decent players coming through academies for clubs such as Sunderland.

Anyway just thought it was interesting the way the culture has changed in the game and thought it offered some insights into the problems that we currently have at the club.

Can you imagine giving someone like Borini a tin of paint and telling him to get cracking? It just wouldn't happen.
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I think the biggest problem is that average footballers can become millionaires and aren't much better than conference level players. I don't know how you fix that problem as every team needs grafters as well as creative players. Maybe a basic wage of say no more than 20 grand in the top league with big incentives for wins and goals scored. However the agents would soon find a way of blocking it.
 
I remember getting on the No 5 bus (as it was then) in Elmwood Avenue to go to the town and a young Jimmy Montgomery getting on at the next stop because he didn't even have a car despite being our No 1. He was a great lad from our neighbourhood that all the kids like me looked up to and our dads were proud of.

Those days are long gone now of course but it illustrates just how close the fans were to the players and them to us. You would never get a local lad playing for his local team for almost his entire career these days . These are the things I miss in modern football and the fact that it was more of a contact sport back in the day.
 
becs said:
2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.
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Been saying this for ages. Way it needs to be. Give footballers a basic wage and then increased salaries for winning etc. That way the shit earns basic wages and the best teams and players get paid what they should get. Would stop players, like Rodwell, being put on insane wages and then not playing a f***ing game.

There would need to be some caps or something introduced tho or else teams/players would just find a way around it to make silly money.
 
becs said:
Been to a talk today with Monty and Dick Malone. Just some points I picked up and have been musing.

1) Since the 60’s, Sunderland have never built on success. We’ve had promotions or cup runs, then sold off our best players, failed to replace them, fallen and started again. We need a CEO and back room staff who are committed to achieving and then building further on successes to break this cycle.

2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.

3) Players used to have to work around the club as well as being footballers. When the Northumbria Centre was opened, they’d do their training, then get the rollers out and roll the pitches. Another day they all worked together and laid a footpath. They did DIY jobs around Roker Park painting barriers and stuff. All of that built team spirit and encouraged working together as well as building pride among them for the ground. They’d socialise together and built good friendships. The camaraderie like this doesn’t seem to happen these days which affects team spirit.

4) Boys were not allowed to sign for a club until they were around aged 14. Until then, they played social football in school teams, local leagues etc. Once they signed, they were given jobs and had to work hard for things like new boots and kit. These days academies take on 5-6 year olds and kit them out with everything they need. They don’t have to work hard to achieve things. They miss out on the social football as they are not allowed to play for the school and local leagues. By the time they get to around 15, the big clubs come in and cherry pick the best for their youth set ups. This is why it’s so hard to get decent players coming through academies for clubs such as Sunderland.

Anyway just thought it was interesting the way the culture has changed in the game and thought it offered some insights into the problems that we currently have at the club.

Can you imagine giving someone like Borini a tin of paint and telling him to get cracking? It just wouldn't happen.
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Didn't we recently have Coleman, Bain (and possibly players too) clearing the snow from the SoL pitch?

We need more of this sort of thing I reckon. Who knows, down in League 1 we might see more of it.
 
fyl2u said:
Didn't we recently have Coleman, Bain (and possibly players too) clearing the snow from the SoL pitch?

We need more of this sort of thing I reckon. Who knows, down in League 1 we might see more of it.
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In League 1, with the cuts, they will be clearing the rubbish from the pitch at half time.
 
Imagine bumping into Jones in your local.

Don't think the players egos could deal with being confronted with reality on the daily basis
 
Giddup Sausage! said:
Been saying this for ages. Way it needs to be. Give footballers a basic wage and then increased salaries for winning etc. That way the shit earns basic wages and the best teams and players get paid what they should get. Would stop players, like Rodwell, being put on insane wages and then not playing a f***ing game.

There would need to be some caps or something introduced tho or else teams/players would just find a way around it to make silly money.
Click to expand...

The problem is they will just sign for the club that offers them a better basic wage so you're back to where you start. It's true that until TV money came into the game that most players, while earning wages that were more than the average working man, depended on their bonuses to make top money. The problem with that (if you're a player) is that you can't make those bonuses if you're injured. As a result, players would routinely get pumped with cortisone injections to help them play even when they had niggling injuries, so they could get their appearance/win/score bonus. The long-term effect was that players would be finished by the time they were in their early 30s (for this and many other reasons) and some suffered crippling long-term effects. Tommy Smith at Liverpool is one that springs to mind.
 
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