Some thoughts



becs said:
Been to a talk today with Monty and Dick Malone. Just some points I picked up and have been musing.

1) Since the 60’s, Sunderland have never built on success. We’ve had promotions or cup runs, then sold off our best players, failed to replace them, fallen and started again. We need a CEO and back room staff who are committed to achieving and then building further on successes to break this cycle.

2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.

3) Players used to have to work around the club as well as being footballers. When the Northumbria Centre was opened, they’d do their training, then get the rollers out and roll the pitches. Another day they all worked together and laid a footpath. They did DIY jobs around Roker Park painting barriers and stuff. All of that built team spirit and encouraged working together as well as building pride among them for the ground. They’d socialise together and built good friendships. The camaraderie like this doesn’t seem to happen these days which affects team spirit.

4) Boys were not allowed to sign for a club until they were around aged 14. Until then, they played social football in school teams, local leagues etc. Once they signed, they were given jobs and had to work hard for things like new boots and kit. These days academies take on 5-6 year olds and kit them out with everything they need. They don’t have to work hard to achieve things. They miss out on the social football as they are not allowed to play for the school and local leagues. By the time they get to around 15, the big clubs come in and cherry pick the best for their youth set ups. This is why it’s so hard to get decent players coming through academies for clubs such as Sunderland.

Anyway just thought it was interesting the way the culture has changed in the game and thought it offered some insights into the problems that we currently have at the club.

Can you imagine giving someone like Borini a tin of paint and telling him to get cracking? It just wouldn't happen.
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New football world now. The very reason players couldn't give a monkies whether they or booed, jeered or dropped, money rules. Top notch cars, clothes, houses. Drive around in their limo's seeing fans in their clubs footy tops, then think of all that cash going into the pot.
 
becs said:
Been to a talk today with Monty and Dick Malone. Just some points I picked up and have been musing.

1) Since the 60’s, Sunderland have never built on success. We’ve had promotions or cup runs, then sold off our best players, failed to replace them, fallen and started again. We need a CEO and back room staff who are committed to achieving and then building further on successes to break this cycle.

2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.

3) Players used to have to work around the club as well as being footballers. When the Northumbria Centre was opened, they’d do their training, then get the rollers out and roll the pitches. Another day they all worked together and laid a footpath. They did DIY jobs around Roker Park painting barriers and stuff. All of that built team spirit and encouraged working together as well as building pride among them for the ground. They’d socialise together and built good friendships. The camaraderie like this doesn’t seem to happen these days which affects team spirit.

4) Boys were not allowed to sign for a club until they were around aged 14. Until then, they played social football in school teams, local leagues etc. Once they signed, they were given jobs and had to work hard for things like new boots and kit. These days academies take on 5-6 year olds and kit them out with everything they need. They don’t have to work hard to achieve things. They miss out on the social football as they are not allowed to play for the school and local leagues. By the time they get to around 15, the big clubs come in and cherry pick the best for their youth set ups. This is why it’s so hard to get decent players coming through academies for clubs such as Sunderland.

Anyway just thought it was interesting the way the culture has changed in the game and thought it offered some insights into the problems that we currently have at the club.

Can you imagine giving someone like Borini a tin of paint and telling him to get cracking? It just wouldn't happen.
Click to expand...
Aye Becs, schoolboy forms started at 14 back then. Most clubs had teams in the Junior leagues from Under 11 though- eg Sheffield Wed was Hillsborough Celtic, Sheffield United, Brunsmeer and Chesvegas, Saltergate Athletic. When my lad was coming through it started at Under 8's. He was at Sheffield Wednesday and they bloody worked them hard. Scouts are everywhere though, even at that age. Both Utd and later City were coming over here taking players.
 
WHD said:
Yeah, we're the only club that doesn't pay players a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. I wondered where we'd went wrong.
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Of course we're not, but the essence of being grossly overpaid without the need to give 100% is surely a symptom of our demise, if you don't agree with that then I'm left wondering?
 
becs said:
Been to a talk today with Monty and Dick Malone. Just some points I picked up and have been musing.

1) Since the 60’s, Sunderland have never built on success. We’ve had promotions or cup runs, then sold off our best players, failed to replace them, fallen and started again. We need a CEO and back room staff who are committed to achieving and then building further on successes to break this cycle.

2) In the olden days players were paid a basic wage with extra for appearances and performances. The basic wage was enough to get by on but the extras paid for the luxuries. That made players hungry to work and perform as they made more money. These days the basic wage of some players is way more than they need to live on so there is no wage incentive to work hard.

3) Players used to have to work around the club as well as being footballers. When the Northumbria Centre was opened, they’d do their training, then get the rollers out and roll the pitches. Another day they all worked together and laid a footpath. They did DIY jobs around Roker Park painting barriers and stuff. All of that built team spirit and encouraged working together as well as building pride among them for the ground. They’d socialise together and built good friendships. The camaraderie like this doesn’t seem to happen these days which affects team spirit.

4) Boys were not allowed to sign for a club until they were around aged 14. Until then, they played social football in school teams, local leagues etc. Once they signed, they were given jobs and had to work hard for things like new boots and kit. These days academies take on 5-6 year olds and kit them out with everything they need. They don’t have to work hard to achieve things. They miss out on the social football as they are not allowed to play for the school and local leagues. By the time they get to around 15, the big clubs come in and cherry pick the best for their youth set ups. This is why it’s so hard to get decent players coming through academies for clubs such as Sunderland.

Anyway just thought it was interesting the way the culture has changed in the game and thought it offered some insights into the problems that we currently have at the club.

Can you imagine giving someone like Borini a tin of paint and telling him to get cracking? It just wouldn't happen.
Click to expand...
Surely all that could be said about all football clubs though - with some exceptions on point 1.
 
Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs always had a strong scouting presence in Ireland. Swansea newcomers and have come in strong over last year. Sunderland - neewhere.
 
It's tricky isn't it? As @Jimmer13 said, society has changed since then, not necessarily for the better. High end professional football is awash with money right now, but (1) we are not going to be at this level next season (which is not necessarily a bad thing either) and (2) there is no guarantee that football will always be so flush: all bubbles burst eventually.
It's never easy to incentivise in a non-monetary way. Many are blinded by the lure of lucre. In any avenue of human endeavour I think there will always be a blesséd few who so love what they do that they'd do it for nowt if it came to it: for them, it's a true vocation. They are almost impossible to unearth, I suspect.
How do we adapt? I don't really know! But ridding the club of as much duplicity & falsity as possible may be a good place to start. Like it or not, we can't compete financially with many clubs now, so we must make ourselves attractive in some other way. If we succeed in doing so we will naturally attract players who are not solely driven by money. As to what this elusive attraction might be, I don't know either but I suspect it may be something similar to the care & attention apparently offered to young players & their families by clubs such as Southampton, for example. As I said, it's tricky, ha ha
 
It's not the amount of money players are paid, it's the absolute shit houses we buy.
we have a massive talent for unearthing and gathering into one place, lazy couldn't give a fuck players with no pride or will to improve or bust a gut to win
The two decent players we have cultivated recently have effectively had to be sold at the first sign of interest from other teams to balance the books a little because of the money we've haemorrhaged on previously mentioned shithouses.

And let's be honest if your a pro footballer wanting to improve and play in a team that looks like it'll bust a gut to win, Sunderland isn't that team....so we end up paying over the odds for shithouses that aren't fit to play for us, vicious f***ing circle of epic proportions
 
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