Some Data

offmenut said:
The people who are going demented , I think this shows a lot.
Imo we werent shit yesterday. Controlled the first half and have a team that can play nice football.
We haven't got players who are comfortable scoring. It doesn't mean that the team are failing and are shite.
Most games we have lost this season we have played well.
We are weak defensively when caught on the break.

Most of you will have seen us play shite. We played shite in league one countless times.
We aren't that far away. Changes need to be made, but not huge changes.
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Are you suggesting that we're good between the boxes? :)
 


Were it in use back in the day the data would no doubt have shown that Brian Clough was lazy, had fewer touches than any other players and contributed little to the side.

In fact all he did was hang about the opposition penalty area and put the ball in the net on a remarkably consistent basis.

We have no Brian Clough.

We don't even have a Brenda Clough.
 
jcrossan said:
Were it in use back in the day the data would no doubt have shown that Brian Clough was lazy, had fewer touches than any other players and contributed little to the side.

In fact all he did was hang about the opposition penalty area and put the ball in the net on a remarkably consistent basis.

We have no Brian Clough.

We don't even have a Brenda Clough.
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If it were in use back in the day it would have shown that Brian Clough put the ball in the net on a remarkably consistent basis.

The data shows facts. The skill is in interpretation. It's amazing how many people don't grasp this.
 
Up early with the kids and been on Google and checked our AFANS data (all fart and nee shite) and we are top of that with an AFANS rating of 16.34.

Chelsea are second with 14.21
 
Coeus said:
xG is a stupid stat for us. Its really poorly recorded and doesn't take into account our style of set up play usually having the opposition behind the ball and settled.

1xg for us will be entirely different to a 1xg stat for a different club, meaning the premise behind it is entirely faulty.
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I don’t understand? The whole point of xG is that it only looks at the quality of the chances created and likelihood of scoring a goal from those chances based on the position of the ball on the field when the shot is taken. If, after stringing 100 passes together, we manage to get the ball to someone, 6 yards in front of an open goal then we’ll have an xG of almost 1.

If another team manages to get one of their players in the same position then they get the same xG regardless of them doing it via one long ball.

While I’m aware that the important stat is the one on the scoreboard, I do think it’s useful. In our instance it’s only confirming what a blind man on a galloping horse can see but for other teams and at other times, it can be helpful to understand performance.
 
Cool as Fridges said:
I don’t understand? The whole point of xG is that it only looks at the quality of the chances created and likelihood of scoring a goal from those chances based on the position of the ball on the field when the shot is taken. If, after stringing 100 passes together, we manage to get the ball to someone, 6 yards in front of an open goal then we’ll have an xG of almost 1.

If another team manages to get one of their players in the same position then they get the same xG regardless of them doing it via one long ball.

While I’m aware that the important stat is the one on the scoreboard, I do think it’s useful. In our instance it’s only confirming what a blind man on a galloping horse can see but for other teams and at other times, it can be helpful to understand performance.
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That's kind of my point, it is supposed to look at the quality of chances but to do it properly, it requires a staggering amount of data to be formulated properly. Some providers claim to acknowledge a wide array of circumstances such as the height of ball, positioning of defenders and goalkeeper, but they don't do it well IMO. It pretty much boils down to where the shot was taken as is.

It simply doesn't reflect what it should do, which is like you say the likelihood of scoring, when our opposition is commonly camped in their own half, set up to do so and unflustered against an opportunity for the opposition that see's them one on one with the defender and defence flustered and scrambling. Or Clarke has just run 30 yards and hit a shot from 8 yards, he has a centre-back blocking and a full-back leaning, due to the slow build the goalkeeper is well set also, it would be counted as the same Xg as when we get countered, the defence is all over the shop and entirely panicked and the player has a lot of goal to hit.

It's just not fit for purpose in the manner we play, given the way it is recorded, IMO.
 
Coeus said:
That's kind of my point, it is supposed to look at the quality of chances but to do it properly, it requires a staggering amount of data to be formulated properly. Some providers claim to acknowledge a wide array of circumstances such as the height of ball, positioning of defenders and goalkeeper, but they don't do it well IMO. It pretty much boils down to where the shot was taken as is.

It simply doesn't reflect what it should do, which is like you say the likelihood of scoring, when our opposition is commonly camped in their own half, set up to do so and unflustered against an opportunity for the opposition that see's them one on one with the defender and defence flustered and scrambling. Or Clarke has just run 30 yards and hit a shot from 8 yards, he has a centre-back blocking and a full-back leaning, due to the slow build the goalkeeper is well set also, it would be counted as the same Xg as when we get countered, the defence is all over the shop and entirely panicked and the player has a lot of goal to hit.

It's just not fit for purpose in the manner we play, given the way it is recorded, IMO.
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If you're talking about what the average person sees from the xG media etc. Provide then you have a point.

But the club will have far more complex data modelling methods in place. They won't be using xG provided by OPTA as the only factor. They'll be using it as one piece of data plugged in to show a bigger picture.
 
Perryqhill said:
Every few games we show that xG and the like are often bollocks as despite the possession we don't convert into goals and then due to naivety and off the ball play others sides maybe lacking in possession and chances can play a couple of passess and get into clear goalscoring positions, often taking them with less chances.
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Yeah, we often wait until they have a wall of plyers protecting the goal before we try to score. That's good for xg but not for goals
 
FlashGordon said:
If you're talking about what the average person sees from the xG media etc. Provide then you have a point.

But the club will have far more complex data modelling methods in place. They won't be using xG provided by OPTA as the only factor. They'll be using it as one piece of data plugged in to show a bigger picture.
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Absolutely, done well and accurately to suit a broader spectrum then its very interesting.

Using opta or statsbomb to suggest we were unlucky, lucky, false position, should have won that game, poor finshers etc.. then it paints a false picture based on inaccurate data.
 
chunksafc said:
Up early with the kids and been on Google and checked our AFANS data (all fart and nee shite) and we are top of that with an AFANS rating of 16.34.

Chelsea are second with 14.21
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🤣 😂 🤣 😂
FlashGordon said:
If you're talking about what the average person sees from the xG media etc. Provide then you have a point.

But the club will have far more complex data modelling methods in place. They won't be using xG provided by OPTA as the only factor. They'll be using it as one piece of data plugged in to show a bigger picture.
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It's not all about xG, as they use data along with reviewing the video. The xG is just a simple way of showing some info to the masses a basic stat. Some football dinosaurs may bitch on about xG and would prefer to stick with SOT (or no stats at all apart from the score as that's all that matters) but stats data has been used by top clubs for a while. They've invested millions into it and Arsenal even bought a stats company to take in house way back in 2012 paying over £2m for it back then.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How big clubs are upping the ante in technology war

Liverpool (right) have led the way in making the most out of data analysis, but City (left) have upped the stakes with recent recruitments. Sevilla chief Monchi (inset) set out the importance of tech in 2019
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
  • Clubs are developing their technology in a bid to find any marginal advantage
  • Manchester City recently hired a group of astrophysicists to give them an edge
  • Liverpool have recruited a chess champion and a rocket scientist of their own
  • Arsenal are one of a number of clubs who are using missile tracking technology
  • There is need for scientists, one chief said they are more in-demand than scouts

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In other words, if player x plays x amount of minutes. Dickhead corporate guy gets money.

Therefor, IS the manager picking the team. The coach or HEAD coach is merely training the players.

Fancy supporting a club like that?
 
Our finishing had been verging on embarrassing for a while now. We make plenty of chances and convert only a fraction of the ones we should.
 
Phantom of mobs said:
It been like this for a year, speakman doesn’t give a toss as long as his personal assets appreciate. Clubs fecked.
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Problems at the moment yes…. But this is beyond stupid
Phantom of mobs said:
Indeed, it’s well documented and would explain several team selections. He made 700k of Bellingham. Conflict of interests if ever I’ve seen one .
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Good grief!
 
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theathletic.com

Kevin De Bruyne and the rise of data and analytics in contract negotiations

Data is everywhere in modern football - so it is no surprise to see players and their representatives utilise it in talks over new deals
theathletic.com theathletic.com

But of course any type of data/analytics is written off as a "load of nonsense" by the nostalgic back of a fag packet scouting and 10 pints the night before a game crew on here :lol:
 
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