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So the Ashes are Lost

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TopCat said:
I honestly don't know

Foakes for Bairstow is the obvious one
Roy and Denly? Not a clue? Sibley and Pope?
Anderson, Woakes or Wood replaces Overton
Leach? Not a clue. Ali would be the obvious one if he can find some red ball form

Root is (and never has been) Captain material He doesn't have the personality or the cricket brain
Buttler is the obvious replacement but his place in the side is far from secure
As long as they don't try and ruin Stokes by giving it to him

Burns, Sibley, Root, Pope, Stokes, Buttler (c), Foakes (w), Ali, Archer, Broad, Anderson/Wood/Stone/Woakes

It makes for depressing reading, but this England Test side is the poorest in 20 years


Wouldn't disagree with that. I think the twisting and calling for change is borne out of pure frustration that we aren't able to compete with the Aussies at home for the first time in 18 years. Back in the 90s it was frustrating, but they had Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Waugh(s), Ponting, Border, Boon, Healy, Gilchrist etc etc
Now they have Harris, Wade, Head etc and they are still crushing us due to the exploits of one freak
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The thing is do any of those names mentioned fill you with confidence that they are an improvement? I know what you’re saying in terms of replacing these lads though as can’t just carry on as we are. I just think the lack of convincing options is massively concerning.

I also agree with Root losing captaincy (think I misunderstood you and thought you meant dropping him full stop) as he just doesn’t come across as a leader. God knows who steps in though.

I do disagree with the ‘weak’ comment though. I just think a lot of these lads like Denly, Roy etc look out of their depth. I certainly wouldn’t say Roy comes across weak as he’s as arrogant as they come I just think he’s been totally undone by a moving ball and a high quality pace attack.
 
One of the biggest problems as someone mentioned previously is before when players were out of form or needed games they would go back and play County games.

Because of the schedule, there are no county games for them to go back to or for players to shine in, so the vicious circle continues.

I would also add that in years gone by the standard of overseas player was higher, rather than now where the overseas stars come for the t20 comp then bugger of to the next one
 
Mrjardine said:
The thing is do any of those names mentioned fill you with confidence that they are an improvement? I know what you’re saying in terms of replacing these lads though as can’t just carry on as we are. I just think the lack of convincing options is massively concerning.

I also agree with Root losing captaincy (think I misunderstood you and thought you meant dropping him full stop) as he just doesn’t come across as a leader. God knows who steps in though.

I do disagree with the ‘weak’ comment though. I just think a lot of these lads like Denly, Roy etc look out of their depth. I certainly wouldn’t say Roy comes across weak as he’s as arrogant as they come I just think he’s been totally undone by a moving ball and a high quality pace attack.
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Yeah, I agree re "weak" comments. Again, it's probably out of frustration. Losing at home to the Aussies hasn't happened in such a long time it's very, very hard to take
chunksafc said:
One of the biggest problems as someone mentioned previously is before when players were out of form or needed games they would go back and play County games.

Because of the schedule, there are no county games for them to go back to or for players to shine in, so the vicious circle continues.

I would also add that in years gone by the standard of overseas player was higher, rather than now where the overseas stars come for the t20 comp then bugger of to the next one
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White ball cricket has fucked up red ball cricket for a number of years and now they are introducing a third format next summer(!)
I have nothing against WBC (apart from the absolute joke that 'The Hundred' will be) but it has to have a static place in the calendar and let the red ball cricket at County level be aligned to the Test schedule. To have no red ball cricket available for players to find some form is an absolute joke
 
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Mrjardine said:
Great so we have Root out. Who replaces him?

Also we get shot of Roy, Bairstow, Overton, Denly and Leach. Who replaces them?

Absolutely ridiculous the way people go on mind.
I remember social media being full of ‘spineless’ comments after the Aussies humped us in the World Cup. Funny how that all went quiet after we won it.

Smith has been the absolute difference this series. Broad and archer have given a very good Aussie new ball pair a run for money but their change options and spinner are just simply better than we have. If Anderson had been fit and Archer was our change things again may have played out slightly different.

Ultimately though this has been Smiths series, an absolute masterclass of batting on pitches that have actually offered a bit.

People will wax lyrical about hr Tendulkars, Lara’s etc but this lad has operated on an even different level to them this series.
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The lack of praise and credit to Smith in particular and too Cummins and Hazelwood on here has really surprised me.

They are quite a few posters who watch a lot of cricket, a lot more than me and are keen followers of Durham and cricket as a whole, you would think they would appreciate good cricket, which without a shadow of a doubt those three have done.

But all you get is the same cliches, spineless etc etc and criticising and slagging off they own players.

Is it too much to expect just to come out and say well played to the opposition you have played some cracking cricket.

Guess it is with some reading the posts on here!

You even had one poster calling Broad embrassing yesterday because he failed with the bat!

When he has been nothing short of superb in this series!
 
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wayne entwhistle no9 said:
18 counties and I can't see any players out there who would make a difference to this England side.
I watched our U19s get repeatedly beaten by Bangladesh this summer.
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Totally agree the replacements are simply not there imo.

Lot of talk about Bairstow been replaced but he is easily in the top 6 or 7 test batsman in this country imo
 
Voice of fair play said:
Totally agree the replacements are simply not there imo.

Lot of talk about Bairstow been replaced but he is easily in the top 6 or 7 test batsman in this country imo
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Listening to Glen McGrath the other day he has been involved in mentoring age group cricketers at NSW and he reckons there is a couple of cracker jack young quicks coming through there system.
The next Ashes series could be another ugly affair for us.
 
Even if we win them wholesale changes still required

Foakes for Bairstow

New captain who doesn’t treat bowlers like machines who can’t tire or get stiff or injured and who understands a modicum of field positioning

Pope should get blooded. Part of the issue is we’re sticking people in who haven’t played much Test cricket at an age where it’s not going to be a concern for them. Hunger isn’t there and neither is the time to improve.
 
TopCat said:
I know, I know I just hate him and his freaky fucked up "technique" - he irritates me more than any other Aussie cricketer ever has - and he's a cheat who should never have been allowed to play the game again
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I can definitely understand why people get annoyed by him if you don't like the man.

Andy Jacobs would agree with you to be honest :lol:
 
Struts said:
Whoever decided to have a home World Cup and a home Ashes series in the same summer wants shooting with shite.
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The Aussies have also competed in both.
Aussies have 3 world class seamers and when conditions suit, a world class spinner. "Lasagne" is a also a top class batter.
Recent performances by both Burns and Defty are encouraging.
How people can still defend Bairstow is beyond me. His lunging, hard hands technique will always be vulnerable against top class seamers and it's clear he's not prepared to accept that and adapt.
Whether Anderson would have made a difference if fit is a mute point really given his age as he'll need replacing
soon.
5th test an ideal opportunity to blood Pope and recall Foakes.
 
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Helmerroids said:
Separate coaches needed now, Bayliss did a great job with short formats and should be commended, hopelessly inadequate with the long form though.

I’d get Dizzy Gillespie as the test coach, someone like Stephen Fleming for ODI’s and T20.
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Only one man for me for white ball

A B DeVilliers
Voice of fair play said:
The lack of praise and credit to Smith in particular and too Cummins and Hazelwood on here has really surprised me.

They are quite a few posters who watch a lot of cricket, a lot more than me and are keen followers of Durham and cricket as a whole, you would think they would appreciate good cricket, which without a shadow of a doubt those three have done.

But all you get is the same cliches, spineless etc etc and criticising and slagging off they own players.

Is it too much to expect just to come out and say well played to the opposition you have played some cracking cricket.

Guess it is with some reading the posts on here!

You even had one poster calling Broad embrassing yesterday because he failed with the bat!

When he has been nothing short of superb in this series!
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Aye mate. Agree there. Broad has been very good yet again with the ball.
 
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Smith, Hazelwood and Cummins are fantastic and should get alot of credit (i also hate Smith who is a cheating **** who should not be playing but when he does play he is the best test batsman since Bradman) The rest of the Aussie line-up is average (Although Lasagne looks pretty good). Our line-up is just massively inconsistent and unwilling to change attitudes on the "aggressive" approach. I like Burns, Root is suspect as captain and needs to be at four. Stokes is great with the bat, really impressed with his adaptability to the situation. Buttler, Bairstow both ridiculously inconsistent. Denly - too old. God knows where the test team goes from here. It seems like all our young lads are just being trained in white ball cricket these days. ECB needs a shake-up but won't really change.
 
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Julio_Schwarz said:
Smith, Hazelwood and Cummins are fantastic and should get alot of credit (i also hate Smith who is a cheating **** who should not be playing but when he does play he is the best test batsman since Bradman) The rest of the Aussie line-up is average (Although Lasagne looks pretty good). Our line-up is just massively inconsistent and unwilling to change attitudes on the "aggressive" approach. I like Burns, Root is suspect as captain and needs to be at four. Stokes is great with the bat, really impressed with his adaptability to the situation. Buttler, Bairstow both ridiculously inconsistent. Denly - too old. God knows where the test team goes from here. It seems like all our young lads are just being trained in white ball cricket these days. ECB needs a shake-up but won't really change.
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In this test match that is exactly what they did changed their aggressive approach in both innings!

They battled and applied themselves in both innings but the Aussies bowlers, bowled extremely well and got the wickets by their very good bowling.
 
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