Self-driving car kills pedestrian

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James said:
This combined with higher levels of car sharing (initially anyway) would improve the efficiency of the road network. Still not the most efficient way to move people around dense urban areas mind, still polluting, take up tons of space etc.
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id imagine by the time they become mainstream we will be on electric in the most part.
 


Frijj said:
Aye, but slowly the low skilled jobs are disappearing. Eventually we will reach a point where we have a section of society who have no available jobs.

Then what?
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History doesn't support that happening. The industrial revolution automated loads of job types, everybody just skilled up a bit and did more complex ones.

The thought of driving an HGV would have been a very skilled job to someone in 1800, but now it's seen as less skilled. When it is automated people will adapt.

People used to pick apples by hand and those jobs (have largely) disappeared, but unemployment is still low.

Efficiencies happen, people adapt, education improves, and then it repeats.

However, I do share your concern. My worry is that automation could widen the gap between rich and poor as the rich own the automation.

Frijj said:
But there will be less though mate. There may be some but there will be less.

What do we do with the people who don’t have jobs or can’t get jobs?



Is that not just a lack of understanding for the specifics of AI rather than a lack of capability of the AI itself?

Don’t get me wrong I don’t know how AI works either but I don’t think they’d even entertain self-driving cars if they didn’t think they could teach them things like this.
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They won't be less jobs, they'll be different jobs. Automation has been happening for hundreds of years.

James said:
Think that might be its limit for the next few decades at least. They haven't got a clue how to get them to work in dense urban environments, too many things going on, can't deal with people crossing roads, cyclists etc.

They're not going to solve issues of congestion or pollution either.

We're decades away from full autonomy, that's if we ever get there at all.
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yes they can, we have that tech now.

Autopilot
 
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Hep said:
History doesn't support that happening. The industrial revolution automated loads of job types, everybody just skilled up a bit and did more complex ones.

The thought of driving an HGV would have been a very skilled job to someone in 1800, but now it's seen as less skilled. When it is automated people will adapt.

People used to pick apples by hand and those jobs (have largely) disappeared, but unemployment is still low.

Efficiencies happen, people adapt, education improves, and then it repeats.

However, I do share your concern. My worry is that automation could widen the gap between rich and poor as the rich own the automation.



They won't be less jobs, they'll be different jobs. Automation has been happening for hundreds of years.
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So what you’re saying is that no matter what level of automation, people will adapt? I do not agree.

There will always be a cohort of people who are skilled only to do basic jobs and we will reach a point where their jobs just do not exist.

Driverless vehicles will replace taxi drivers and lorry drivers. Some will find alternative employment and some won’t.

As for the rich poor gap, yes I think if automation goes the way I expect then we will see an underclass of people entirely dependent on welfare that is bigger than today and who have no ability to upskill

Those who own the automated robots will coin it in though
 
Frijj said:
So what you’re saying is that no matter what level of automation, people will adapt? I do not agree.

There will always be a cohort of people who are skilled only to do basic jobs and we will reach a point where their jobs just do not exist.

Driverless vehicles will replace taxi drivers and lorry drivers. Some will find alternative employment and some won’t.

As for the rich poor gap, yes I think if automation goes the way I expect then we will see an underclass of people entirely dependent on welfare that is bigger than today and who have no ability to upskill

Those who own the automated robots will coin it in though
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That is the point though, what we see as low skilled jobs were considered highly skilled jobs 300 years ago.

Education does improve and the base skills level of humans will rise in line with the rise in the baseline of low skilled jobs.

Where will all the taxi drivers go? where did all the people who worked the farms go? All the people down the mines etc?

It will be change and it will be disruptive, but I believe their will be jobs for those who want them. Creative tasks won't be automated for some time yet.
 
Hep said:
That is the point though, what we see as low skilled jobs were considered highly skilled jobs 300 years ago.

Education does improve and the base skills level of humans will rise in line with the rise in the baseline of low skilled jobs.

Where will all the taxi drivers go? where did all the people who worked the farms go? All the people down the mines etc?

It will be change and it will be disruptive, but I believe their will be jobs for those who want them. Creative tasks won't be automated for some time yet.
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They’d only be high skilled as they relied on pre-digital technology.

Maybe you’re right. I hope you are, but I just cannot see where these people will end up working.
 
Frijj said:
So what you’re saying is that no matter what level of automation, people will adapt? I do not agree.

There will always be a cohort of people who are skilled only to do basic jobs and we will reach a point where their jobs just do not exist.

Driverless vehicles will replace taxi drivers and lorry drivers. Some will find alternative employment and some won’t.

As for the rich poor gap, yes I think if automation goes the way I expect then we will see an underclass of people entirely dependent on welfare that is bigger than today and who have no ability to upskill

Those who own the automated robots will coin it in though
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bit narrow minded... the world evolves... each generation adapts.. my dad could barely send a text message yet he could knock you up a kitchen cabinet in minutes
 
Frijj said:
But there will be less though mate. There may be some but there will be less.

What do we do with the people who don’t have jobs or can’t get jobs?



Is that not just a lack of understanding for the specifics of AI rather than a lack of capability of the AI itself?

Don’t get me wrong I don’t know how AI works either but I don’t think they’d even entertain self-driving cars if they didn’t think they could teach them things like this.
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I really don't think they could. There's too many variables in town driving. However motorway driving should be a f***ing shit load easier. Our lasses car pretty much drives for us now with the adaptive cruise control and auto gearbox, all we do is point it.

All they need for anything but motorway driving is semi automated cars that keep you within the speed limit, brake for you in emergencies, proximity alarms for others fuckwittery and warnings that go off when it knows you're not looking at the road for an extended period of time ie looking down at yer f***ing phone (like I see twats doing every day).. All that tech already exists and would make the world infinitely safer when most cars have it pre installed.
 
Epping said:
bit narrow minded... the world evolves... each generation adapts.. my dad could barely send a text message yet he could knock you up a kitchen cabinet in minutes
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That’s grand. I’d much prefer a homemade one to IKEA crap.
I still have to lovely cabinets my old man made about eighty years ago.
 
Hep said:
History doesn't support that happening. The industrial revolution automated loads of job types, everybody just skilled up a bit and did more complex ones.

The thought of driving an HGV would have been a very skilled job to someone in 1800, but now it's seen as less skilled. When it is automated people will adapt.

People used to pick apples by hand and those jobs (have largely) disappeared, but unemployment is still low.

Efficiencies happen, people adapt, education improves, and then it repeats.

However, I do share your concern. My worry is that automation could widen the gap between rich and poor as the rich own the automation.



They won't be less jobs, they'll be different jobs. Automation has been happening for hundreds of years.


yes they can, we have that tech now.

Autopilot
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The tech simply isn't there yet and I suspect it's decades away. I'm talking about fully autonomous vehicles here.
 
sidneyeric said:
I don't think robots can be programmed for every driving situation it would come up against, still think it's a shit idea.
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I don't see how they could ever cope with a tight multistory, or ever finding a parking space. Nevermind driving over an area that isn't actually a public highway (like across a field).

But driveless controls for 99% of the commute, yes, definitely.
 
PTR said:
I don't see how they could ever cope with a tight multistory, or ever finding a parking space. Nevermind driving over an area that isn't actually a public highway (like across a field).

But driveless controls for 99% of the commute, yes, definitely.
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You can already buy self parking cars though
 
Frijj said:
So what you’re saying is that no matter what level of automation, people will adapt? I do not agree.

There will always be a cohort of people who are skilled only to do basic jobs and we will reach a point where their jobs just do not exist.

Driverless vehicles will replace taxi drivers and lorry drivers. Some will find alternative employment and some won’t.

As for the rich poor gap, yes I think if automation goes the way I expect then we will see an underclass of people entirely dependent on welfare that is bigger than today and who have no ability to upskill

Those who own the automated robots will coin it in though
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If all low skilled jobs were automated and we had mass unemployment for those unable to skill up, then we would have economic meltdown. The earnings of the rich would be heavily taxed to feed the poor and the poor would be well....poor. If that happened, then people would not be able to afford to buy products with all this automation in, which would make those products very expensive to produce as mass production came down. Then someone wiuld say ‘hey, why dont I build a car without automation for much cheaper’.

History has shown this sort of thing has never happened. People feared the printing press, but it created more jobs than it took.

James said:
The tech simply isn't there yet and I suspect it's decades away. I'm talking about fully autonomous vehicles here.
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Most companies making them are saying just a few years away.
 
DaveH said:
If all low skilled jobs were automated and we had mass unemployment for those unable to skill up, then we would have economic meltdown. The earnings of the rich would be heavily taxed to feed the poor and the poor would be well....poor. If that happened, then people would not be able to afford to buy products with all this automation in, which would make those products very expensive to produce as mass production came down. Then someone wiuld say ‘hey, why dont I build a car without automation for much cheaper’.

History has shown this sort of thing has never happened. People feared the printing press, but it created more jobs than it took.


Most companies making them are saying just a few years away.
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They're going to say that. The tech industry is built on hype, just look at Musk. There's a very good (short) book by Christian Wolmar on driverless cars that came out in January. Would recommend it to anyone on this thread, worth a few hours of your week.
 
I’m a nervous car passenger at the best of times, generally trusting no one but myself, so there’s no way I’d let a bloody computer drive me about, with the record they have for suddenly crashing without obvious reason. :eek:
 
PTR said:
I don't see how they could ever cope with a tight multistory, or ever finding a parking space. Nevermind driving over an area that isn't actually a public highway (like across a field).

But driveless controls for 99% of the commute, yes, definitely.
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The long term plan is not to have city centre parking as we have it now. There will be drop off points then the cars will bugger off and charge up out of town and return when needed.
 
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