RIP Ricky Hatton

[Chatty83]

I think (and this is just my interpretation) that what they are saying is that that he didn't willfully commit suicide whilst in his right mind and other factors contributed where he wasn't himself (CTE, depression, alcohol).

That's the only way I can understand it because he was in the house alone and actively hung himself so it's definitely suicide in that regard. But I guess they have terminology for separating if people were mentally elsewhere or ill etc.

Though I guess you could say that to the vast majority of suicide cases.

Either way it's sad but hopefully it helps his family make some peace with the conclusion.

 

[tunstallhill]

I think (and this is just my interpretation) that what they are saying is that that he didn't willfully commit suicide whilst in his right mind and other factors contributed where he wasn't himself (CTE, depression, alcohol).

That's the only way I can understand it because he was in the house alone and actively hung himself so it's definitely suicide in that regard. But I guess they have terminology for separating if people were mentally elsewhere or ill etc.

Though I guess you could say that to the vast majority of suicide cases.

Either way it's sad but hopefully it helps his family make some peace with the conclusion.

sounds like that.

could say the same for someone who 'attempts' suicide as a cry for help, or even attention maybe, and unintentionally go to far and commit the act. (not for one second saying thats what happened here).... you could argue in that case that they didn't wilfully commit suicide as it wasn't their intention.

horrible situation

 

[Waverley]

Surely there should be repercussions for Boxing from this?

 

[Chatty83]

Surely there should be repercussions for Boxing from this?

I doubt it. Boxing is the wild west, how many people have tested positive for PEDs and received barely any punishment.

Boxing could really do with some sort of world body that could oversee it and implement better medical programs, programs to help retired boxers with mental health issues and money control, having an actual punishment for PED use but I just can't see it happening, until maybes someone gets badly hurt or killed off someone who tests positive (always reactive and never proactive in the sport).

Despite what you'd think though, boxing isn't even in the top ten sports for CTE - Football, American Football, MMA, Ice Hockey, Rugby and Australian Rules Football are all ahead of it, including in some of the women's games.

 

[cornish mackem]

Had bad memory loss also leading up to his death according to his family

It’s obviously not good for you but it’s never put into words like that. The condition is only ever identified post mortem and being found in a likeable bloke will / should catch the attention of the boxing community.
I watch the rugby documentary about head injuries and dementia the other day and pretty much everyone interviewed said they loved their time and wouldn’t do anything different. Grown up can make their own choices I guess but does the governing body need to take some responsibility?

 

[Geras]

In contrast to some other verdict, suicide is to the criminal standard of proof i.e. beyond reasonable doubt.

Absent a note, intention can only ever be inferred, which is not always straightforward if, as appears to be the case here, alcohol is involved.

I think most life insurance policies cover suicide these days, usually with an exemption for a set amount of time after the policy is taken out.

The ones I have had certainly work that way.

A year usually .
On a lighter note , once had a bloke come into our insurance office with his policies and say " if i top myself will our lass get the money " . Obviously concerned but being obliged to be honest we said yes
" F* ck that, I'm not doing it then " he says. Panic over.

 

[cornish mackem]

Death by hanging but not satisfied he intended to take his own life? How does thst work

If his judgement is impaired because of drink and the neurological condition, can you say for sure he tried to kill himself ? Likely he did but no letter or intelligence that he did intend to then the safe verdict isn’t suicide .

 

[Mr Redknapp]

If his judgement is impaired because of drink and the neurological condition, can you say for sure he tried to kill himself ? Likely he did but no letter or intelligence that he did intend to then the safe verdict isn’t suicide .

A lot of pro-wrestlers passed away because they overdosed on meds because of their lifestyle, i can see that ruling making a lot of sense mate.

 

[Woodman Boy]

A year usually .
On a lighter note , once had a bloke come into our insurance office with his policies and say " if i top myself will our lass get the money " . Obviously concerned but being obliged to be honest we said yes
" F* ck that, I'm not doing it then " he says. Panic over.

Several years ago, a colleague of mine arranged a life policy for a client. A week after the first anniversary of the policy start date, the client committed suicide. The policy paid out to his family.

 

[Geras]

Several years ago, a colleague of mine arranged a life policy for a client. A week after the first anniversary of the policy start date, the client committed suicide. The policy paid out to his family.

We often used to make ex gratia payment anyway on smaller policies as long as they weren't very short term claims. Certainly if they were for funeral costs etc .

 

[stapler]

If his judgement is impaired because of drink and the neurological condition, can you say for sure he tried to kill himself ? Likely he did but no letter or intelligence that he did intend to then the safe verdict isn’t suicide .

It's a two stage test for intention.

First, did they intend to do the act that killed them.

Second, did they intend by doing the act to end their life.

Both are "beyond reasonable doubt" questions.

Without a note, they aren't easy things to decide, particularly the second question. As others have said, you get cries for help that go too far. You get people who set things up and then, without making the final decision, end up accidentally killing themselves. And as you say, alcohol and neurological conditions can leave serious doubt about what was really intended.

It's deeply sad either way.

 

[Woodman Boy]

We often used to make ex gratia payment anyway on smaller policies as long as they weren't very short term claims. Certainly if they were for funeral costs etc .

It was a policy to cover his mortgage, and if I remember correctly was in excess of £100k.
Very sad and he must have been planning it since the policy was set up.

 

[stapler]

My posts saying it's beyond reasonable doubt are wrong. The Supreme Court changed the law in 2020. It's balance of probabilities now.

 

[Geras]

It was a policy to cover his mortgage, and if I remember correctly was in excess of £100k.
Very sad and he must have been planning it since the policy was set up.

After a year they just pay out, its actually in the policy terms, a week later or not . You could probably demand payment to the hour .
They might have even paid out sooner than that given it was a mortgage policy , especially if it was joint life, as the co proposer would likely be ignorant of any intent.

 

[Maravilla]

I think (and this is just my interpretation) that what they are saying is that that he didn't willfully commit suicide whilst in his right mind and other factors contributed where he wasn't himself (CTE, depression, alcohol).

That's the only way I can understand it because he was in the house alone and actively hung himself so it's definitely suicide in that regard. But I guess they have terminology for separating if people were mentally elsewhere or ill etc.

Though I guess you could say that to the vast majority of suicide cases.

Either way it's sad but hopefully it helps his family make some peace with the conclusion.

Seem to remember something similar being said at Gary Speed's inquest.

 

[Woodman Boy]

After a year they just pay out, its actually in the policy terms, a week later or not . You could probably demand payment to the hour .
They might have even paid out sooner than that given it was a mortgage policy , especially if it was joint life, as the co proposer would likely be ignorant of any intent.

Yes, that’s correct, but how did he manage to wait a year? It must have been very stressful and difficult for him.
I’m not sure if it was a sole or joint policy, it wasn’t my client.

 

[Geras]

Yes, that’s correct, but how did he manage to wait a year? It must have been very stressful and difficult for him.
I’m not sure if it was a sole or joint policy, it wasn’t my client.

As is presumed by the terms of the policy , coincidence . He may have had no intent at policy Inception, or suicidal ideation comes and goes over a year ( or even day) . Weirdly the policy anniversary may have symbolised what life was life with hope just one year earlier and hes thought "f*ck it" . Some little things can be the final decider

 

[Woodman Boy]

As is presumed by the terms of the policy , coincidence . He may have had no intent at policy Inception, or suicidal ideation comes and goes over a year ( or even day) . Weirdly the policy anniversary may have symbolised what life was life with hope just one year earlier and hes thought "f*ck it" . Some little things can be the final decider

We’ll never know unfortunately

 

[Geras]

We’ll never know unfortunately

Thousand stories in the naked city marra .

 

[Gennaro Savastano]

Tragic mind. An elite sportsman who always had lifestyle issues between fights and ultimately major addiction issues once he had retired. Really sad. RIP Ricky.