Rehan Ahmed

[Raymondo]

Wouldn't say minor Bashir has bowled more than anyone this game for us

He’s taken 3-190 in the match at about 4 an over, he’s detrimental to the side and he can’t bat, or field.

If we’re going to pick someone who is going to average in excess of 60 whilst going at 4 an over we might aswell pick a bloke who can bat and field whilst doing it.

 

[chopsfc007]

He’s taken 3-190 in the match at about 4 an over, he’s detrimental to the side and he can’t bat, or field.

If we’re going to pick someone who is going to average in excess of 60 whilst going at 4 an over we might aswell pick a bloke who can bat and field whilst doing it.

I should have explained better it's more that I can't see them leaving bash out

 

[Turner the Cat]

I dont know why we took Ahmed to India and then didnt really use him when those were great pitches for spinners. Maybe there is a good reason but it seemed a shame and a lost opportunity.

Ahmed has been bowling really well in recent matches. His figures have been very good and I've seen him twice and he has been very impressive. I'm not convinced he is the answer but I think he is worth giving further opportunities and his batting is a huge bonus. From a white ball perspective, we've struggled with runs recently from lower down the order so he could be a good option.


As for Bashir, I'm really not convinced at all. Can't get a game for Somerset, his CC figures are terrible, his overall figures against NZ were poor and he didnt do well for England Lions recently. His only decent performance recently was against Zimbabwe but there is little that can be taken from that game given they are bottom of the rankings. Leach is a far better spinner, which is why Somerset are picking him and not Bashir and Leach is having an excellent season so far and performance wise I believe is the stand out spinner at a county level
.

 

[Dexter]

Not sure if he’s injured at the minute but in the championship game just gone Leicestershire bowled 166 overs in the game and he didn’t bowl a single one of them.

For comparison Trevaskis bowled 22 overs so it’s not like no spinners bowled at all. Maybe his bowling just isn’t there at the minute and England feel it would be pointless picking him as essentially a specialist number 8.

 

[Raymondo]

Not sure if he’s injured at the minute but in the championship game just gone Leicestershire bowled 166 overs in the game and he didn’t bowl a single one of them.

For comparison Trevaskis bowled 22 overs so it’s not like no spinners bowled at all. Maybe his bowling just isn’t there at the minute and England feel it would be pointless picking him as essentially a specialist number 8.

Think he’s got some back issue which means he’s playing as a batsman only in this game.

 

[Nasser Butt-Head]

Not sure if he’s injured at the minute but in the championship game just gone Leicestershire bowled 166 overs in the game and he didn’t bowl a single one of them.

For comparison Trevaskis bowled 22 overs so it’s not like no spinners bowled at all. Maybe his bowling just isn’t there at the minute and England feel it would be pointless picking him as essentially a specialist number 8.

I was going to say the same thing. Must be an injury because the little he has bowled in the last few games, he's done well. Took some wickets with a good economy.

 

[Raymondo]

Another century today at more or less a run a ball. That’s four for the season. No idea if he’s fit to bowl in this game yet, we may find out tomorrow because the pitch is already taking spin.

 

[Inside Forward]

His batting looks class like.

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

6/7 when stokes retires?

 

[Raymondo]

6/7 when stokes retires?

I’d get him in the side now, make space somewhere for him, been saying it for ages.

Maybe even as low as 8 in the Jadeja role.

 

[mackembhoy]

I’d get him in the side now, make space somewhere for him, been saying it for ages.

Maybe even as low as 8 in the Jadeja role.

But his bowling isn't good enough in the role he would play in the England side in most conditions.

It's a shame he's not as good as his brother at bowling or at least an offspinner anyway.

 

[Raymondo]

But his bowling isn't good enough in the role he would play in the England side in most conditions.

It's a shame he's not as good as his brother at bowling or at least an offspinner anyway.

He has a much better Test & FC average than Bashir does, so what exactly would you suggest his role would be? Bearing in mind that Bashir is one of the worst number 11’s we’ve had since Alan Mullally and we’d be better off having a traffic cone in the field.

 

[Dexter]

He has a much better Test & FC average than Bashir does, so what exactly would you suggest his role would be? Bearing in mind that Bashir is one of the worst number 11’s we’ve had since Alan Mullally and we’d be better off having a traffic cone in the field.

With the pitches we prepare these days the spinner is asked to bowl a lot of overs, and for all his limitations Bashir isn’t the worst at keeping it relatively tight and being able to bowl a lot of overs to allow the quicker bowlers to rest.

The risk with Rehan is that he comes on, and like most young leg spinners serves up two or three balls an over of pies and can’t be trusted to bowl more than a handful of overs in the day.

 

[mackembhoy]

He has a much better Test & FC average than Bashir does, so what exactly would you suggest his role would be? Bearing in mind that Bashir is one of the worst number 11’s we’ve had since Alan Mullally and we’d be better off having a traffic cone in the field.

He's played 10 games for Leicestershire this season and yet Liam Trevaskis who only played 3 has bowled more overs than him.

Legspinners just aren't used in red ball cricket. Even India who has an excellent one in Kuldeep refuse to pick him most of the time.

They are just easier to score off in the main due to the fact they don't offer the same control a fingerspinner does. Rehan has even less control due to his experience and offers up plenty bad balls. Most conditions your spinner is to keep your pacers fresh and then come into the game later on. I don't think Rehan can do that.

I saw a clip of Lara comparing Murali and Warne the other day. He said Murali was so much harder to play, while Warne would be easy to score off but was relentless and would pull the magic ball off when he least expected it.

While leggies have been dominant in white ball in recent years. Of which Rehan can definitely shine as a boiler in white ball. Yasir Shah is the only leggie to really shine in red ball in the last 15 years.

Rehan improving his batting to this level is excellent though as he'd likely make a second spinner in Asia. You don't have to compromise the batting if he can slot in the top 7 for example.

 

[Raymondo]

He's played 10 games for Leicestershire this season and yet Liam Trevaskis who only played 3 has bowled more overs than him.

He’s been dealing with a back injury which has prevented him from bowling as many overs as he’d have liked to. That explains his reduced workload, not ‘cricketing factors’.
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Regarding economy, there’s barely difference career wise to Shoaib. It’s less than 0.25 of a run per over. I get what you’re saying regarding leggies historically, but that’s not how England play. Nor was it how Australia played with Warne. They want bowlers to be a wicket taking threat, not just there to rest the quicks and keep things tight while they’re doing so.

My rationale behind wanting Ahmed, is that most of the time over here, a spinner isn’t really needed, even in this series with pitches being flat, slow and dry, the spinners have barely made an impact - in recent history England at home have picked a spinner ‘just in case’. England picking Ahmed however, would mean you’re significantly strengthening your batting and fielding because he’s a three dimensional cricketer who’d be capable of scoring hundreds batting at 8. You’re getting a lad who can contribute in all circumstances and all conditions. If it doesn’t turn and swings round corners he will atleast provide something with bat and in the field. You’ve also got Joe Root to bowl some fill-in overs if required.

I also like Jack Carson, who can bat and field too.

Ultimately, I just can’t explain why Bashir deserves to keep getting picked. He’s like Monty Panesar, but nowhere near as good of a spinner and Monty only ever played when conditions dictated two spinners (or Swann was injured). By picking Ahmed, you may not improve your spin bowling from a pretty low base, but you’re gaining lower order runs and good fielding.

There are probably better spinners, but I don’t believe Ahmed is any less of a spinner than Bashir.

 

[mackembhoy]

He’s been dealing with a back injury which has prevented him from bowling as many overs as he’d have liked to. That explains his reduced workload, not ‘cricketing factors’.
-
Regarding economy, there’s barely difference career wise to Shoaib. It’s less than 0.25 of a run per over. I get what you’re saying regarding leggies historically, but that’s not how England play. Nor was it how Australia played with Warne. They want bowlers to be a wicket taking threat, not just there to rest the quicks and keep things tight while they’re doing so.

My rationale behind wanting Ahmed, is that most of the time over here, a spinner isn’t really needed, even in this series with pitches being flat, slow and dry, the spinners have barely made an impact - in recent history England at home have picked a spinner ‘just in case’. England picking Ahmed however, would mean you’re significantly strengthening your batting and fielding because he’s a three dimensional cricketer who’d be capable of scoring hundreds batting at 8. You’re getting a lad who can contribute in all circumstances and all conditions. If it doesn’t turn and swings round corners he will atleast provide something with bat and in the field. You’ve also got Joe Root to bowl some fill-in overs if required.

I also like Jack Carson, who can bat and field too.

Ultimately, I just can’t explain why Bashir deserves to keep getting picked. He’s like Monty Panesar, but nowhere near as good of a spinner and Monty only ever played when conditions dictated two spinners (or Swann was injured). By picking Ahmed, you may not improve your spin bowling from a pretty low base, but you’re gaining lower order runs and good fielding.

There are probably better spinners, but I don’t believe Ahmed is any less of a spinner than Bashir.

I must have have added I'm not saying pick Bashir over Rehan.

But a fair post and wasn't aware he wasn't fully bowling fit. As he's been bowling in white ball

 

[Raymondo]

I must have have added I'm not saying pick Bashir over Rehan.

But a fair post and wasn't aware he wasn't fully bowling fit. As he's been bowling in white ball

Yeah, I’m not sure to what extent he’s been feeling the effects of the injury, but he didn’t bowl at all in their last CC match due to his back.

To be honest, I’m not even saying pick Ahmed over Bashir, just that Ahmed with his batting ability is as good a selection as any in our conditions and current situation - particularly heading to Australia this winter. He seems to be the closest to a Graeme Swann level of effectiveness as we’ve had since he retired - I’m not for one second saying he’s that good like.

I don’t mind Dawson coming in here, but obviously he’s not going to be around too much longer even if he bowls out of his skin.

I reiterate my point regarding Carson too.

 

[Nasser Butt-Head]

He's played 10 games for Leicestershire this season and yet Liam Trevaskis who only played 3 has bowled more overs than him.

Legspinners just aren't used in red ball cricket. Even India who has an excellent one in Kuldeep refuse to pick him most of the time.

They are just easier to score off in the main due to the fact they don't offer the same control a fingerspinner does. Rehan has even less control due to his experience and offers up plenty bad balls. Most conditions your spinner is to keep your pacers fresh and then come into the game later on. I don't think Rehan can do that.

I saw a clip of Lara comparing Murali and Warne the other day. He said Murali was so much harder to play, while Warne would be easy to score off but was relentless and would pull the magic ball off when he least expected it.

While leggies have been dominant in white ball in recent years. Of which Rehan can definitely shine as a boiler in white ball. Yasir Shah is the only leggie to really shine in red ball in the last 15 years.

Rehan improving his batting to this level is excellent though as he'd likely make a second spinner in Asia. You don't have to compromise the batting if he can slot in the top 7 for example.

And that was mainly on very helpful conditions when Paks were in exile in the UAE.

Hasn't Rehan been injured for most the season, which has meant he can't bowl as much. I might be making that up, just going off what lads have said on here.

Agree with your general points though.

Leggies have to be extra special to be considered. I'd still have them in though, more of a wicket taking threat. Depends on what the captain needs though. Do they want someone to hold an end and be economical or do you want a bigger wicket taking threat? I don't think you can have both. Unless you're top shelf.

 

[Raymondo]

He’s in the wickets here @mackembhoy

3 for spit on a flat track with the kookaburra

 

[Nasser Butt-Head]

He’s in the wickets here @mackembhoy

3 for spit on a flat track with the kookaburra

Gerrin. Might be over his back issues. Even with his sporadic bowling this season he's still managed to take wickets.

Fair play to him. Seems to be coming on nicely. Great to see. Can only bode well for England. Could be a mainstay in the white ball stuff at the very least.