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Rafael Benítez

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Mark E Smith said:
Not convinced there'll be that much of a "quality gulf" between The Mags / Norwich / Villa, not to mention Derby / Brighton / Hull etc. The Mags' squad was pisspoor for most of last season and fuck knows how they'll attract anything other than sub-par signings to the Championship.
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Yeah, it was more in response to the post I quoted. They do have a better squad than Villa and Norwich imo. It's not as good as some claim, but it's certainly a better one. I would like to see Hull stay down as I reckon they'd be a decent challenger to them - Bruce is good down there and their squad isn't bad.
 
The Fish said:
So, just so we're clear, it's your assertion that; with only 10 games Benitez turned us from a club conceding more goals than we scored (28/53/-25), to a club scoring more goals than we conceded (16/12/4). But that's not moving in the right direction? Even though Allardyce, (who had 31 games and a transfer window) managed a GD that was better by 1 goal and you say that is the right direction?

Ok
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In the ten games in question, so your GD was moving in the wrong direction compared to the GD of the team/manager you had to finish above to survive, yes.

Is that too hard for you to understand?
 
Remember the Mags in the Championship last time. They had Chris Hughton, a manager who knew the division, but wasn't feted as the new messiah, and so there wasn't any pressure on him through his own reputation.

Benitez has a shitload of pressure to 'save' Newcastle and no experience in that division. He sorted their defending out reasonably well for the most part, but it'll be interesting watching the Mags against the more agricultural teams. Look at Southampton with Pelle and Long as an example of how badly that side can be torn apart even with their apparently 'strong' current squad. If things don't start off well in September, it's going to be a long season for him.

Or a very short one. Wouldn't be surprised if he has some pretty clear break clauses in there to be able to sod off at the end of the first year if they don't make it up.
 
prehab26 said:
I can. Champions League salary with a Championship job. They money he is getting paid is scandalous and is the main reason why he is coming back. This 'Love' for the club is a load of bull. All your managers seem to say the same things and ultimately getting moved on.
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Is Allardyce at Sunderland for the weather like?

:lol: Yes he's on a lot, all of the managers at his level are. He'd get the same at clubs in less revered leagues all over the world. Make no mistake, if there was a Premier League "project" of note coming in for him he'd not be at Newcastle next season, and he'd not be taking a significant pay-cut to go there either.

safcphill1985 said:
Ah, I genuinely hadn't seen that.
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No worries.
 
Not really sure what to make if it. Clearly a top manager to have and to get him to stay at that level is something of a coup. He definitely improved them last season and is way above anybody else they are likely to attract.
However the level of optimism/expectation seems absolutely ridiculous I have spoken to a few who are usually fairly reasonable and they are talking about being top 8 in 3 seasons. It's barmy and no idea what it's based on.
 
The Fish said:
Is Allardyce at Sunderland for the weather like?

:lol: Yes he's on a lot, all of the managers at his level are. He'd get the same at clubs in less revered leagues all over the world. Make no mistake, if there was a Premier League "project" of note coming in for him he'd not be at Newcastle next season, and he'd not be taking a significant pay-cut to go there either.


No worries.
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BSA is on far less. My point is, people saying he is there because he loves the club and it has huge potential is a load of shit. I think the top 4 mangers are only on more than Rafa. That is why he is staying.
 
argel830 said:
Remember the Mags in the Championship last time. They had Chris Hughton, a manager who knew the division, but wasn't feted as the new messiah, and so there wasn't any pressure on him through his own reputation.

Benitez has a shitload of pressure to 'save' Newcastle and no experience in that division. He sorted their defending out reasonably well for the most part, but it'll be interesting watching the Mags against the more agricultural teams. Look at Southampton with Pelle and Long as an example of how badly that side can be torn apart even with their apparently 'strong' current squad. If things don't start off well in September, it's going to be a long season for him.

Or a very short one. Wouldn't be surprised if he has some pretty clear break clauses in there to be able to sod off at the end of the first year if they don't make it up.
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They also had Barton / Nolan / Carroll, players who at least had the gumption to deal with the more physical style of football. Can you see the likes of Wijnaldum being up for it ? Nee chance.
 
Morny said:
Because he improved them, considerably, and despite those poor results their fans can see that. And because he's a thousand times better than any other manager they're likely to get.

It's not that shocking, to be fair.
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The Hysteria? It's laughable man.
 
The Fish said:
So, just so we're clear, it's your assertion that; with only 10 games Benitez turned us from a club conceding more goals than we scored (28/53/-25), to a club scoring more goals than we conceded (16/12/4). But that's not moving in the right direction? Even though Allardyce, (who had 31 games and a transfer window) managed a GD that was better by 1 goal and you say that is the right direction?

Ok
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I think the key is he had 10 games to save Newcastle but failed. Advocaat had 9 games, Di Canio had 8 games, both with poorer players at their disposal. Whilst it wasn't a straightforward job Benitez clearly didn't do a great job. I think the Newcastle will get promoted due to the extreme lack of quality in the Championship. If I was a Newcastle fan I'd probably want the gut but I don't get why there is this reverence about a Benitez and the desire to have a 'world class' manager. You stats there are remarkable attempt to make a failed job into a good one. He hasn't done a great job so far but may do in the future.
 
Mags on Twitter banging on about 'being relevant again'. It's absolutely embarrassing.

They are clinging to the Benitez factor to handle relegation. It's ridiculous

Morny said:
There's no point me debating with such extreme bias, so I'm gonna call an end to it here. Feel free to claim the "win" if you want, and call me a mag, or an apologist etc...
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It's very very dangerous to judge coming into a 10 game scrap as improving them. His points ratio was probably similar to what advocaat achieved here in that firefighting mission. How did that turn out?

When you need results, it's totally different to having that over a full season. He is the best manager they could get I agree, but he's nowhere near as good as they make out. His career since 2008 is frankly shite. Took every club backwards in the league and sacked.
 
AlpineExile said:
In the ten games in question, so your GD was moving in the wrong direction compared to the GD of the team/manager you had to finish above to survive, yes.

Is that too hard for you to understand?
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It's not, but it's a broken argument. You're essentially saying that Benitez's GD was worsening in his 10 games, vs Allardyce's that was improving. Yet you will not countenance the rest of the season or the myriad factors that impact that. For example; Benitez is starting from scratch, without his own players, or time to work with them. Allardyce's final ten games are inexorably affected by the 21 games and however many weeks he's had to work with them. You discount these because it doesn't fit your broken argument.

It's like trying to compare apples and pterodactyls.
 
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