Play off final at Chester this Saturday

[pavarotti1980]

NTSL were definitely a feeder League into the NEPL in the original Pyramid system where it was optional for promotion. If my memory serves me right Swalwell won the League on numerous occasions but decline promotion into the NEPL Premier Division (at this time there was only 1 Division in the NEPL).
When the original Pyramid system collapsed the the NEPL advertised for team to join their set up to form a 1st Division (originally known as NEPL2). This is when Sacriston applied to join the NEPL set up along my club Eppleton and other clubs.

NTSL was created as a result of the NEPL formation. At this point the only feeder as part of the pyramid was from the Durham leagues as the Northumberland did not adopt the pyramid system. 2018 is the first year a full pyramid in the north east has been in place. When sacriston joined they resigned from NTSL as opposed to being champions and gaining promotion.

The main reason for the reluctance of NTSL clubs was the longer format and players unwilling to commit to this. Now that format is changing more clubs are keen to progress

 

[Former Player]

NTSL was created as a result of the NEPL formation. At this point the only feeder as part of the pyramid was from the Durham leagues as the Northumberland did not adopt the pyramid system. 2018 is the first year a full pyramid in the north east has been in place. When sacriston joined they resigned from NTSL as opposed to being champions and gaining promotion.

The main reason for the reluctance of NTSL clubs was the longer format and players unwilling to commit to this. Now that format is changing more clubs are keen to progress

Sorry but you are totally wrong.

 

[ollie c]

It's just progress mate. Local cricket survived for years without Internet to upload scores and stats, It survived without coloured clothing and balls for cup cricket, survived without electronic scoreboards, survived without qualified coaches to coach juniors etc etc etc. Time moves on I'm afraid.
The issues around local cricket moving forward are far more to do with participation in younger generation than anything else IMO.

100% this.

 

[pavarotti1980]

Sorry but you are totally wrong.

And you are correct on what basis?

 

[Former Player]

And you are correct on what basis?

The original pyramid system was set up as part of the Grenville Holland report by the ECB & DCB. I was part of the committee that introduced the pyramid system.
There were many issues and problems with the system and the main one was that it wasn't mandatory for promotion to the NEPL.
The NEPL at this time only had 1 Division so if you wanted promotion you had to play the 120 over (all day cricket as seen by most clubs) format.
The winners of the DSL and TSL were to play off to gain promotion to the NEPL if both clubs wanted promotion and met the NEPL criteria.
Swalwell won the TSL consecutively for many years but did not want promotion blocking any other TSL club from progessing to the NEPL (if anyone wanted to).
Hetton Lyons progressed into the NEPL via this route twice although othe DSL clubs also declined promotion (Burnmoor & Boldon come to mind) when they won the DSL.
Because there was never clubs from both leagues wanting promotion in the same season a play off never took place but the system was in place.
The original system collapsed when the DSL refused to relegate Durham City and it invited clubs to join it and set up a Division 2 DSL.

 

[pavarotti1980]

The original pyramid system was set up as part of the Grenville Holland report by the ECB & DCB. I was part of the committee that introduced the pyramid system.
There were many issues and problems with the system and the main one was that it wasn't mandatory for promotion to the NEPL.
The NEPL at this time only had 1 Division so if you wanted promotion you had to play the 120 over (all day cricket as seen by most clubs) format.
The winners of the DSL and TSL were to play off to gain promotion to the NEPL if both clubs wanted promotion and met the NEPL criteria.
Swalwell won the TSL consecutively for many years but did not want promotion blocking any other TSL club from progessing to the NEPL (if anyone wanted to).
Hetton Lyons progressed into the NEPL via this route twice although othe DSL clubs also declined promotion (Burnmoor & Boldon come to mind) when they won the DSL.
Because there was never clubs from both leagues wanting promotion in the same season a play off never took place but the system was in place.
The original system collapsed when the DSL refused to relegate Durham City and it invited clubs to join it and set up a Division 2 DSL.

there was never the offer of play off to NTSL clubs at any point since its formation in 2000.

This included Swalwell, Ashington, Shotley Bridge and Tynedale!

 

[Carteron]

Sorry but you are totally wrong.

This

Sacriston were founder members of NEPL1

Apparently told that they would be promoted if Shotley Bridge didn't win the NTSL, so arranged to send their pro home then to be told that they would have to play Swalwell after all. Like I said - not sure of the full facts of what went on, and someone from the NEPL committee would probably have a different spin on it. Either way, the situation is what it is now - so it will be interesting to see how they sort it out. If there's a possibility to play it next weekend that's the obvious answer.

I have been thinking about this one, and was wondering why they chose to send the pro home. At the time, Shotley were strong favourites to win the NTSL. They were sat top with a home game to come. They may have lost but surely you would have to assume that without the rain there was a very strong chance they would win, and would have to have a playoff.

Not judging anyone as I don't know for sure what went on, but seems silly to "send the pro home" when the likelihood is that there will be a playoff.

 

[brandon]

This

Sacriston were founder members of NEPL1



I have been thinking about this one, and was wondering why they chose to send the pro home. At the time, Shotley were strong favourites to win the NTSL. They were sat top with a home game to come. They may have lost but surely you would have to assume that without the rain there was a very strong chance they would win, and would have to have a playoff.

Not judging anyone as I don't know for sure what went on, but seems silly to "send the pro home" when the likelihood is that there will be a playoff.

As far as I'm aware 'the decision' was made absolutely ages ago - based on the fact the season was scheduled to finish on 9 September. I'd imagine the club would've looked to find a reasonable price for a flight home for the lad.

It could be called bad planning on Castle Eden's part if a playoff was potentially on the table from day 1 of the season - but the way it was explained to me, I don't believe the CE lads felt it was - keeping the pro at this last minute stage would likely have cost them hundreds of pounds and now it's been delayed another week I'd guess the cost could even have stretched beyond £1,000 all told.

Whatever happens, the NEPL have handled this very poorly. I know they can't do anything about the weather, but the whole events of the weekend seemed very amateurish on their behalf.

 

[pavarotti1980]

This

Sacriston were founder members of NEPL1

Sacriston resigned from NTSL to join the NEPL1

The original pyramid system was set up as part of the Grenville Holland report by the ECB & DCB. I was part of the committee that introduced the pyramid system.
There were many issues and problems with the system and the main one was that it wasn't mandatory for promotion to the NEPL.
The NEPL at this time only had 1 Division so if you wanted promotion you had to play the 120 over (all day cricket as seen by most clubs) format.
The winners of the DSL and TSL were to play off to gain promotion to the NEPL if both clubs wanted promotion and met the NEPL criteria.
Swalwell won the TSL consecutively for many years but did not want promotion blocking any other TSL club from progessing to the NEPL (if anyone wanted to).
Hetton Lyons progressed into the NEPL via this route twice although othe DSL clubs also declined promotion (Burnmoor & Boldon come to mind) when they won the DSL.
Because there was never clubs from both leagues wanting promotion in the same season a play off never took place but the system was in place.
The original system collapsed when the DSL refused to relegate Durham City and it invited clubs to join it and set up a Division 2 DSL.

From the 2016 NEPL League Management Committee Report

"The NEPL has been participating in the Inter Leagues Working Party that has been working to re-establish a pyramid system for promotion and relegation between leagues in Durham and Northumberland. A new pyramid system will apply for promotion to and relegation from the NEPL. A booklet explaining the new arrangements will be available at the AGM for any Club that did not collect this at the post-season meeting. All Clubs are reminded that they must continue to comply with the criteria on facilities, ground conditions and club structure set out in the booklet"

 

[Former Player]

Sacriston resigned from NTSL to join the NEPL1


From the 2016 NEPL League Management Committee Report

"The NEPL has been participating in the Inter Leagues Working Party that has been working to re-establish a pyramid system for promotion and relegation between leagues in Durham and Northumberland. A new pyramid system will apply for promotion to and relegation from the NEPL. A booklet explaining the new arrangements will be available at the AGM for any Club that did not collect this at the post-season meeting. All Clubs are reminded that they must continue to comply with the criteria on facilities, ground conditions and club structure set out in the booklet"

Yes this is the NEW PYRAMID SYSTEM. This is the 1st year of the new system.
There was pyramid system prior to this.

there was never the offer of play off to NTSL clubs at any point since its formation in 2000.

This included Swalwell, Ashington, Shotley Bridge and Tynedale!

There certainly was mate. Why do you think it was a pyramid? It wasn't a ladder format from the DSL.

 

[pavarotti1980]

Yes this is the NEW PYRAMID SYSTEM. This is the 1st year of the new system.
There was pyramid system prior to this.

Which did not include NTSL as there wasnt the support from Northumberland for the pyramid in its existing form. As Northumberland was the main porportion of clubs they didnt support the old pyramid system, hence why there was no play-offs between NTSL & DCL (or previous setups).

There certainly was mate. Why do you think it was a pyramid? It wasn't a ladder format from the DSL.

So if there was a pyramid why did Burnopfield and Sacriston not try and win NTSL and be promoted but instead resigned and started from DCL2 and NEPL1 respectively

 

[Former Player]

Which did not include NTSL as there wasnt the support from Northumberland for the pyramid in its existing form. As Northumberland was the main porportion of clubs they didnt support the old pyramid system, hence why there was no play-offs between NTSL & DCL (or previous setups).


So if there was a pyramid why did Burnopfield and Sacriston not try and win NTSL and be promoted but instead resigned and started from DCL2 and NEPL1 respectively

They did.
As I've tried to explain. When the DSL refused to relegate Durham City the original Pyramid between NEPL, DSL & NTSL collapsed. The NEPL then advertised for clubs to set up "NEPL2". Sacriston CCC then applied to join. The only NTSL club to do so. My club Eppleton CC also applied. The NEPL accepted 10 clubs into the NEPL2 (now the NEPL 1st Division).
They then set up ladder system promotion / relegation between the NEPL / DCL as the NTSL did not want to be part of it (apparently voted on by their clubs). Burnhopfield CC then resigned from the NTSL and joined DCL as this was the only way into the NEPL.
DCB then got all Leagues together to set up the present system. NTSL would not participate in the system as long as "all day cricket" was being played. The NEPL then introduced a new playing format (110 overs instead of 120 overs with a 12.30pm start instead of a 11.30am start) which has been in place for this season. This removed the "all day cricket" format and opened up the move to the new Pyramid System.

 

[pavarotti1980]

They did.
As I've tried to explain. When the DSL refused to relegate Durham City the original Pyramid between NEPL, DSL & NTSL collapsed. The NEPL then advertised for clubs to set up "NEPL2". Sacriston CCC then applied to join. The only NTSL club to do so. My club Eppleton CC also applied. The NEPL accepted 10 clubs into the NEPL2 (now the NEPL 1st Division).
They then set up ladder system promotion / relegation between the NEPL / DCL as the NTSL did not want to be part of it (apparently voted on by their clubs). Burnhopfield CC then resigned from the NTSL and joined DCL as this was the only way into the NEPL.
DCB then got all Leagues together to set up the present system. NTSL would not participate in the system as long as "all day cricket" was being played. The NEPL then introduced a new playing format (110 overs instead of 120 overs with a 12.30pm start instead of a 11.30am start) which has been in place for this season. This removed the "all day cricket" format and opened up the move to the new Pyramid System.

So NTSL didnt want to be part of the system then? Previously you said they were and the invites were refused by the respective winners (2016 Ashington, 2015 Shotley Bridge, 2014 Tynedale and 2013 Swalwell) but in actaul fact the league refused on behalf of the member clubs to be part fo the system and not the clubs blocking the progression of others

 

[Jose Sandshoe]

They did.
As I've tried to explain. When the DSL refused to relegate Durham City the original Pyramid between NEPL, DSL & NTSL collapsed. The NEPL then advertised for clubs to set up "NEPL2". Sacriston CCC then applied to join. The only NTSL club to do so. My club Eppleton CC also applied. The NEPL accepted 10 clubs into the NEPL2 (now the NEPL 1st Division).
They then set up ladder system promotion / relegation between the NEPL / DCL as the NTSL did not want to be part of it (apparently voted on by their clubs). Burnhopfield CC then resigned from the NTSL and joined DCL as this was the only way into the NEPL.
DCB then got all Leagues together to set up the present system. NTSL would not participate in the system as long as "all day cricket" was being played. The NEPL then introduced a new playing format (110 overs instead of 120 overs with a 12.30pm start instead of a 11.30am start) which has been in place for this season. This removed the "all day cricket" format and opened up the move to the new Pyramid System.

This 100%. The present pyramid system came with the creation of Prem 2_and the DCLs. Previous to this the feeder leagues to the single Premier league was the DSL and the NTSL.

No winner of the NTSL ever took an interest in promotion hence why no team ever went up.

Semantics now but this is a fact.

 

[Former Player]

So NTSL didnt want to be part of the system then? Previously you said they were and the invites were refused by the respective winners (2016 Ashington, 2015 Shotley Bridge, 2014 Tynedale and 2013 Swalwell) but in actaul fact the league refused on behalf of the member clubs to be part fo the system and not the clubs blocking the progression of others

The old Pyramid System WAS IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE NEPL 2 set up. Not 2013,2014,2015. PRIOR TO THIS.

 

[pavarotti1980]

The old Pyramid System WAS IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE NEPL 2 set up. Not 2013,2014,2015. PRIOR TO THIS.

As you stated it was the NTSL that was opposed to it so therefore the individual clubs were unable to do anything unless they resigned from the league.

Eventually Northumberland saw sense and became involved in what will be a fully integrated pyramid for the north east with their new structure next year alongside the improved playing conditions

 

[Jose Sandshoe]

As you stated it was the NTSL that was opposed to it so therefore the individual clubs were unable to do anything unless they resigned from the league.

Eventually Northumberland saw sense and became involved in what will be a fully integrated pyramid for the north east with their new structure next year alongside the improved playing conditions

The NTSL were not opposed to it? It was the clubs who won the league who opted not to take up promotion. They would not have had to resign. If Newcastle or South North had been relegated then they would have gone down to the NTSL league.

Are you not confusing this with the NYSD League where Norton and Stockton did have to resign and were told they wouldn't be allowed back hence why Norton joined the DSL when relegated from the Premier League.

 

[Former Player]

As you stated it was the NTSL that was opposed to it so therefore the individual clubs were unable to do anything unless they resigned from the league.

Eventually Northumberland saw sense and became involved in what will be a fully integrated pyramid for the north east with their new structure next year alongside the improved playing conditions

The NTSL WERE PART OF IT PRIOR TO NEPL2. They were part of the Northumberland Cricket Board who negotiated it!!!
The individual clubs did not want promotion because they did not want to join it.
They did not have to resign at all. They just had to say they wanted promotion.

 

[pavarotti1980]

The NTSL WERE PART OF IT PRIOR TO NEPL2. They were part of the Northumberland Cricket Board who negotiated it!!!
The individual clubs did not want promotion because they did not want to join it.
They did not have to resign at all. They just had to say they wanted promotion.

Listen I cant be bothered with anyone who uses capitals to make their point more important by being bigger.

You said before the NTSL didnt want to be part of it (on behalf of the clubs) but then said they were part of it.

When you have made you mind up type it all out again and try not to use capitals

 

[BatEleven]

- Pre-NEPL1 the NTSL were part of the pyramid (win the league, choose to go up to NEPL via play off with DSL winners if required). This period saw both Swalwell & Burnmoor regularly win their leagues and neither wanted to play 120 overs in a day with early starts. Lyons went up via this route as did South Shields I believe.

- For the period from the formation of NEPL1 until 2016 season the NTSL were not part of the pyramid. This is the reason I believe Burnopfield chose to enter DCL as that was going to be their easiest route to NEPL.

- From this season (2017) onwards the NTSL are part of the pyramid. They have agreed to be part of the pyramid and I believe this is due to the NEPL starting later and reducing the length of the game. Everyone was aware of this from the start of the 2017 season and everyone should have been aware of the possibility/probability of a play off game.

I hope this is easier to understand and the odd detail may be wrong but the above is how I understand it.