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O'Nien at CB

Hongkongphooey said:
So why sell Batth then, why not bring in another experienced cb that the young lads can learn from like Ballard did last season with Batth. He is doing a good job, he isn't the disaster some on here have him down as. Every goal we concede he's to blame by some on here.
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I don't agree with that.

But I do think we need a recognised CB rather than 09. Ballard was the ball player out last season working alongside whoever, and it was working great, until injury took over. Ballard now seems to continually give it to O9 to play out with. As if he's been told to. Maybe it's a percentages game and the fact O9 plays with the ball out from the back more means his mistakes are highlighted more? But it's consistent in his balls out are coming back at us.

What can't be argued with however is that he's not built to be a CB. The hands/pushing/grappling is all because he's not strong enough to play that position, and it's costing us in either free kicks/penalties or daft yellow cards, all adding up.

There's no reason either Seelt or Triantis can't step into that berth now. If they can't, why are they at the club? Seelt especially.
 
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The issue is that his passing and willingness to step into midfield make him different from our other CBs and keep him in the team. Whether that outweighs the fact he's undersized, concentrates too much on "the dark arts" and makes stupid mistakes is debatable.

From what I've seen so far I think Seelt has the ability on the ball to replace him and would give us more aerial presence at both ends of the pitch.

Disagree with shoehorning him into the side - If he's not playing CB then he shouldn't be on the pitch as we have better options now in all other positions.
 
Deener718 said:
The issue is that his passing and willingness to step into midfield make him different from our other CBs and keep him in the team. Whether that outweighs the fact he's undersized, concentrates too much on "the dark arts" and makes stupid mistakes is debatable.

From what I've seen so far I think Seelt has the ability on the ball to replace him and would give us more aerial presence at both ends of the pitch.

Disagree with shoehorning him into the side - If he's not playing CB then he shouldn't be on the pitch as we have better options now in all other positions.
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What options do we have in the defensive midfield role mate?
 
Hongkongphooey said:
What options do we have in the defensive midfield role mate?
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Obviously looking a bit slim with Matete injured. Dan Neil should play deeper from my POV, and is head and shoulders above the rest of the available squad at playing that position.

You might not agree but you've got Hume and Huggins (who often played in centre mid for Leeds reserves) that I think are far better technical options in that position than O9 is. All our other CM options are better further up the pitch though.
With Huggins and Cirkin fit and Alese and Pembele coming back soon, there is loads of cover at fullback to try Hume in there.
 
Deener718 said:
Obviously looking a bit slim with Matete injured. Dan Neil should play deeper from my POV, and is head and shoulders above the rest of the available squad at playing that position.

You might not agree but you've got Hume and Huggins (who often played in centre mid for Leeds reserves) that I think are far better technical options in that position than O9 is. All our other CM options are better further up the pitch though.
With Huggins and Cirkin fit and Alese and Pembele coming back soon, there is loads of cover at fullback to try Hume in there.
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You are putting square pegs in round holes because we have not replaced Evans. Neil, Jobe and Ekwah all play better up the pitch that we agree on, so why would you play Neil in a position that he has struggled with. Jobe I would argue has not got the physicality yet to play deeper so that leaves Ekwah who is struggling with form since his injury. Huggins is doing great at Left back so why move him, Hume from what I've seen of him in that role isn't the answer, he has a tendency to wander out of position far too often.Pembele is an unknown quantity , has suffered a serious injury and there is no guarantee he is going to hit the ground running.Cirkin and Alese have struggled with injuries since they signed tbf.
 
Hongkongphooey said:
You are putting square pegs in round holes because we have not replaced Evans. Neil, Jobe and Ekwah all play better up the pitch that we agree on, so why would you play Neil in a position that he has struggled with. Jobe I would argue has not got the physicality yet to play deeper so that leaves Ekwah who is struggling with form since his injury. Huggins is doing great at Left back so why move him, Hume from what I've seen of him in that role isn't the answer, he has a tendency to wander out of position far too often.Pembele is an unknown quantity , has suffered a serious injury and there is no guarantee he is going to hit the ground running.Cirkin and Alese have struggled with injuries since they signed tbf.
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My point was that there are better options in the squad than sticking o'nien in CDM, not that they are perfect options.

Agree that Ekwah isn't the suited to it, but your criticism of Hume is the same criticism o'nien gets whenever he plays in midfield, except Hume is far more mobile.

We could do with replacing Evans, but o'nien in midfield is never going to be the answer.
 
Deener718 said:
My point was that there are better options in the squad than sticking o'nien in CDM, not that they are perfect options.

Agree that Ekwah isn't the suited to it, but your criticism of Hume is the same criticism o'nien gets whenever he plays in midfield, except Hume is far more mobile.

We could do with replacing Evans, but o'nien in midfield is never going to be the answer.
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I wouldn't play O'nien as the cdm, I'm saying the options we have aren't working
 
Hongkongphooey said:
You are putting square pegs in round holes because we have not replaced Evans. Neil, Jobe and Ekwah all play better up the pitch that we agree on, so why would you play Neil in a position that he has struggled with. Jobe I would argue has not got the physicality yet to play deeper so that leaves Ekwah who is struggling with form since his injury. Huggins is doing great at Left back so why move him, Hume from what I've seen of him in that role isn't the answer, he has a tendency to wander out of position far too often.Pembele is an unknown quantity , has suffered a serious injury and there is no guarantee he is going to hit the ground running.Cirkin and Alese have struggled with injuries since they signed tbf.
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He's the best option and I wouldn't say he's struggled with it.
 
O’Nien as captain isn’t getting dropped anytime soon.

I wouldn’t be against seeing him play as a defensive midfield player to give Ekwah time out of the side but Mowbray has emphasised he sees O’Nien as a centre back so I don’t see that happening either.

The way we play with both fullbacks pushing on makes us vulnerable and Ekwah’s recent struggles has only exacerbated this.

O’Nien has made mistakes but they all have.

It speaks volumes that once he found his feet every manager we’ve had since he came to the club picks him week in week out.
 
Chances are a player that spends 5 years at a club is going to have some iffy games and make mistakes.

I think as a midfielder turned into a CB you can't reap the benefits of that without accepting the limitations. He's going to be better on the ball, but occasionally his size and mentality isn't going to be compatible with the idea of a traditional defender.

Ultimately, you want consistency at the back and even if his performances show the odd wobble he does represent that. Bar his shoulder injury in League One he's been consistently available for selection and I think that's partly why he was elevated to the role of captain.
 
becoming quite the trend to blame onein for every goal we concede. it's a bit simplistic. We are letting ina lot of goals in the transition and that because we are so often overcommitted. A better defensive midfield would help but so would having full backs staying in position. Fact is we deliberately open and overcommitted jn attempts to overload offensively in midfield. We are going to have to accept we will concede. If we tighten it up we won't be so entertaining. It's not all oneins fault
 
Mboma said:
Aye, on a free mate. There's never been any real interest in the lad, especially from clubs above us. I think taht tells its own story tbf.

He's a limited player, who tries his best every week. It's not even his fault as he's not a CB, but he's not a CM neither. He's tried hard attitude will often make do, but we should be passed the point of just making do.

I've nothing against the lad other than I think we probably have better options in Seelt and possibly even Triantis alongside Ballard.
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Clubs have been interested in him and wanted to sign him even when he was under contract. Especially the year we failed in the play offs under Johnson. Comparing him with ballard is pointless as part of the reason he is allegedly attracting interest from higher up is his age and that he is already a good championship player. Seelt and triantis had looked woeful in the reserves when playing together. We have conceded the 5th least in the league just over 1 a game. Less conceded than Ipswich, Southampton, Preston, Cardiff and Hull who are above us. Tactics are more causing issues for our defence than onien alone and the lack of an effective midfield unit in defensive transitions. Most goals we concede are counter attacks. He isn't the best CB and we probably could sign better, but he isn't this issues in this team at the moment, our finishing at the other end is
 
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Boots said:
becoming quite the trend to blame onein for every goal we concede. it's a bit simplistic. We are letting ina lot of goals in the transition and that because we are so often overcommitted. A better defensive midfield would help but so would having full backs staying in position. Fact is we deliberately open and overcommitted jn attempts to overload offensively in midfield. We are going to have to accept we will concede. If we tighten it up we won't be so entertaining. It's not all oneins fault
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It's also a trend to see absolutely no wrong in him..it's cult like and really weird.
He's a very very likable lad but if we're being honest he's an average centre half
 
SAFC11 said:
The issue is our cbs have no protection. It all gets gung-ho. Our midfield is as strong as wet tissue and easy to play around. None of them are really defensive minded. Our fullbacks are often miles forward or inside meaning our CBs have to cover one whole side of the pitch. It's why we are so easy to counter against. Our wingers have okay work rate but still not great at tracking back.
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Yep, we attack in numbers yet come up short as we fail to put the ball in the back of the net. With players out of position our defence is wide open.
 
As frustrating as it is, the club have a low budget and we have a squad thats good but not quite good enough.

O9 does a reasonable job. Are there better, of course, but ultimately we cant afford them so resort to two foreign kids as competition.

Despite the fact that we have no true defensive midfield and to compound that we play attacking football I think O9 does pretty well in open play. I think the problem comes when defending corners etc.

Obviously the plan is that Seelt or Triantis take over at some point and although my gut feel at present is that neither will be good enough for promotion, but how many times have we said that about our young players only for them to be great 30 games later.
 
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