October 2020 - Getting worse across Europe.

Jap Stammer said:
My missus is on one of the local ex-pat forums over there and the consensus is that this a determined push to get the numbers as low as possible to ensure the Algarve gets the 'Green light' from the UK government.

Numbers aren't bad over there at the minute so it could be right.

Could also be a load of bollocks as well.
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I have friends in Carvoeiro mate and they are saying similar. Trying to tempt us out there as soon as possible :lol: Maybe September
 


Ember said:
I think you guys don't understand big business so I will try to lay it out for you simply here. AZ is just another big pharma and its best not to get emotionally involved. They are in the game to make money and that includes Pfizer and the rest of them in case you think I am favouring any others because of "pro EU shite" as you so delicately put it.

Oxford originally favoured Merck as a delivery partner for the vaccine the Oxford team developed. Merck are one of the big 4 vaccine makers. The deal stalled and AZ saw their chance to move into the lucrative vaccine market so they signed up to Oxfords terms. The terms included supplying vaccine at cost price to developed countries while the pandemic remained a pandemic and in perpetuity for poorer nations. Thats undoubtedly a good thing but it was simply the price that AZ was prepared to pay to break into the vaccine market. In the long term they could expect large profits (billions annually) in supplying the booster doses that will be needed in the developed world for years going forward.

Unfortunately for AZ as they were new to vaccine making they haven't been able to scale to the production of the billions of vaccines required for the entire world population. Then they had the bad luck with the serious blood clotting side effects which will rule out this vaccine as a long term success when there are alternatives available. These are just the facts of the situation so there is no point in killing the messenger. I am not happy that any vaccine or vaccine maker doesn't succeed as the more the better for the world, particularly the less developed world where the AZ agreement on supplying at cost was great news.
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What's any of the this hot to do with

"producing a vax at a fraction of the cost of others that has been successfully used on millions and millions of people ( and will continue to do so ) failure?"
 
Ember said:
I think you guys don't understand big business so I will try to lay it out for you simply here. AZ is just another big pharma and its best not to get emotionally involved. They are in the game to make money and that includes Pfizer and the rest of them in case you think I am favouring any others because of "pro EU shite" as you so delicately put it.

Oxford originally favoured Merck as a delivery partner for the vaccine the Oxford team developed. Merck are one of the big 4 vaccine makers. The deal stalled and AZ saw their chance to move into the lucrative vaccine market so they signed up to Oxfords terms. The terms included supplying vaccine at cost price to developed countries while the pandemic remained a pandemic and in perpetuity for poorer nations. Thats undoubtedly a good thing but it was simply the price that AZ was prepared to pay to break into the vaccine market. In the long term they could expect large profits (billions annually) in supplying the booster doses that will be needed in the developed world for years going forward.

Unfortunately for AZ as they were new to vaccine making they haven't been able to scale to the production of the billions of vaccines required for the entire world population. Then they had the bad luck with the serious blood clotting side effects which will rule out this vaccine as a long term success when there are alternatives available. These are just the facts of the situation so there is no point in killing the messenger. I am not happy that any vaccine or vaccine maker doesn't succeed as the more the better for the world, particularly the less developed world where the AZ agreement on supplying at cost was great news.
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That all seems a fair summary. The only thing that matters in the short term is that we got vaccines into people's arms quickly. Long term there are plenty of alternatives.

I'm not sure of the blood clot count but I'll take your word. Always suspected it could be political.
 
CEF said:
They pretty much have, haven't they?
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The particular CVST with low blood platelet count syndrome, with a small number of associated deaths in the under 50 age group, has been reported at a low incidence level for AZ and J&J vaccines. I haven't seen these deaths reported for other vaccines, although this may of course be reported after further rounds of vaccination.
 
bahtat said:
Saltaire it should be then, it would be perfect for u
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I've been there. It's really nice for a wander around 😎
Jap Stammer said:
Lovely place, Carvoeiro.

That and Alvor are our two favourite places on the Algarve.
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Only been once at stayed at Olhos de Agua. It was a fishing village with a nice beach and more like a place for locals than a tourist resort. Loved it 😎
 
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Is there still the Hockney exhibition in Saltaire.. nice to go along the canal too

Fascinating place
Not Europe but id have to start another thread but numbers are starting to creep up in iran again
 
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Epping said:
Is there still the Hockney exhibition in Saltaire.. nice to go along the canal too

Fascinating place
Not Europe but id have to start another thread but numbers are starting to creep up in iran again
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I’d need to check but it think he actually owns the mill
bahtat said:
I’d need to check but it think he actually owns the mill
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Got that wrong but there is a gallery there devoted to Hockneys work,
 
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Several of Spain's top-selling drugs have a higher risk of side effects than the AstraZeneca vaccine.​


Much has been made of a series of cases of those who had received this particular jab, also known as the Oxford vaccine, developing blood clots in places such the brain, intestines and liver or having an abnormally low number of platelets in their bloodstream. However, the chances of developing such problems are thought to be around 1 in 100,000

Víctor Jiménez, professor of Microbiology at the Complutense University of Madrid explained that: “Any drug on the market can cause serious side effects at least as frequently as this vaccine does”

Ibuprofen is associated with a “moderately increased risk of suffering from a heart attack or stroke”, according to its own packaging.

Another case in point is the contraceptive pill, which causes blood clots in an estimated 1 in 1,000 cases.

A colleague of Jiménez, the biochemist and biologist José Manuel Bautista, condemned the panic associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine as “unnecessary scaremongering”.
 
Ember said:
Rubbish. AZ tried to break into the vaccine market where they had no experience and failed because of:

1. First of all not carrying out complete and reliable testing to include all aspects of their supply chain (they never achieved approval in the US because of this)
2. Their biggest problem of being an unreliable delivery partner. They let down everybody on promised deliveries (including the UK).
3. The problem with the dangerous blood clotting in younger age groups which was just bad luck.

However because of reason 3 it is easy to predict that no developed country will be likely to use the current AZ vaccine in 2022 (unless every other vaccine available in bulk proves to have equally serious side effects).
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Does the influenza vaccine not count?
 
bahtat said:
Saltaire it should be then, it would be perfect for u
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we go to baildon rugby club every year for the harley bike rally and often walk down the hill to the saltaire brewery for a few on the saturday afternoon. stop off at the junction on the way back up to the rugby club.
baildon is a great place for an afternoon on the beer.

edit, sorry for digressing, forgot this was a thread about coronavirus in europe.
 
pavarotti1980 said:
Does the influenza vaccine not count?
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Yes, badly worded that, they did have a flu vaccine but were not a major player in the vaccine world before 2020, the vaccine market being dominated by 4 main players.

blog.technavio.com

Top 10 Vaccine Manufacturers in the World 2020 | Global Vaccine Market Report - Technavio

The global vaccine market is expected to register a strong growth rate by 2024, here are the top 10 vaccine manufacturers and vaccine companies in the world
blog.technavio.com blog.technavio.com
 
Ember said:
Yes, badly worded that, they did have a flu vaccine but were not a major player in the vaccine world before 2020, the vaccine market being dominated by 4 main players.

blog.technavio.com

Top 10 Vaccine Manufacturers in the World 2020 | Global Vaccine Market Report - Technavio

The global vaccine market is expected to register a strong growth rate by 2024, here are the top 10 vaccine manufacturers and vaccine companies in the world
blog.technavio.com blog.technavio.com
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they created the nasal spray for all paediatric influenza vaccinations. So novel administration of traditional vaccines giving IM is a decent step forward for them.
 
ontap said:
Failed ? You call producing a vax at a fraction of the cost of others that has been successfully used on millions and millions of people ( and will continue to do so ) failure? Mate you have bombarded this board with pro Eu shite for weeks and now you are scraping the bottom of your empty barrel.
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He or she is an embarrassment
 
Ember said:
I think you guys don't understand big business so I will try to lay it out for you simply here. AZ is just another big pharma and its best not to get emotionally involved. They are in the game to make money and that includes Pfizer and the rest of them in case you think I am favouring any others because of "pro EU shite" as you so delicately put it.

Oxford originally favoured Merck as a delivery partner for the vaccine the Oxford team developed. Merck are one of the big 4 vaccine makers. The deal stalled and AZ saw their chance to move into the lucrative vaccine market so they signed up to Oxfords terms. The terms included supplying vaccine at cost price to developed countries while the pandemic remained a pandemic and in perpetuity for poorer nations. Thats undoubtedly a good thing but it was simply the price that AZ was prepared to pay to break into the vaccine market. In the long term they could expect large profits (billions annually) in supplying the booster doses that will be needed in the developed world for years going forward.

Unfortunately for AZ as they were new to vaccine making they haven't been able to scale to the production of the billions of vaccines required for the entire world population. Then they had the bad luck with the serious blood clotting side effects which will rule out this vaccine as a long term success when there are alternatives available. These are just the facts of the situation so there is no point in killing the messenger. I am not happy that any vaccine or vaccine maker doesn't succeed as the more the better for the world, particularly the less developed world where the AZ agreement on supplying at cost was great news.
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Boris understands this.
 

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