NZ v England tests

[Bri]

As for Leach it is difficult to know how good a bowler he is, as the wicket at Taunton has been soo heavily favoured in the extreme to spin bowling in the last couple of years,which has helped him massively.

However guess if we don't give him a go we will never know.

Certainly agree with this..... and as The Rat says the overseas pitches lately favour spinners. Stick him in.

 

[Steak Pie]

I think it's because we have not got a consistent performer like Pujara at 3, don't think anyone would have any issue at all Root batting at 4 if it wasn't for the fact whoever has batted at 3 has failed time and time again.

It's the fact that at number 3 over the last 2 years we have tried a number of players mostly new players and all have failed and that a lot of times we are 2 wickets down for next to nothing that people are now suggesting he bats just one place higher and take that responsibility, and don't it's too much to ask.

The fact that he was at 3 all through 2016 and his average dropped by 10 points notwithstanding? Would it not just be a case of spoiling what you have while not solving any problems. I hope they put Liam straight in at 3, it's where he want to be, it's where he should have been 18 months ago, and it's where he's most comfortable.

I think this whole thing of him not taking responsibility is garbage. This isn't one day stuff and he might have to be fully on it for full week, so let's give him the best possible chance to succeed. He's the skipper, he's the most important player in the team, and he's most comfortable (and most effective) at 4 so let him get on with his jobs. At least you've dropped this claim that he's refused to move.

 

[brandon]

Bit harsh on someone who would be in anyone's World XI to say he hasn't stepped up. As I said, he went in at 3 pretty much all of 2016 before he took the captaincy and averaged about 10 clicks less, so maybe it's just simply a case of tried and failed so don't make the same mistakes again.

I don't think it's any co-incidence that Root, Smith and Kholi all bat at four. But it's only in England that the skipper gets stick for it.

I don't think it's harsh at all, great players and great leaders - in all aspects of life, not just cricket - lead by example and do the dirty work themselves.

As I said, it may be out of his hands, we don't know.

 

[The Rat]

I don't think it's harsh at all, great players and great leaders - in all aspects of life, not just cricket - lead by example and do the dirty work themselves.

As I said, it may be out of his hands, we don't know.

But that is going off the view that stepping up to 3 is some great macho thing, its not

If he goes in at 3 we still need a number 4 like

I just don't understand this point of view. I'd bat him at 3 probably but batting higher up the order doesn't mean you are taking more responsibility you know. It is a more specialised position that is all.

The fact that he was at 3 all through 2016 and his average dropped by 10 points notwithstanding? Would it not just be a case of spoiling what you have while not solving any problems. I hope they put Liam straight in at 3, it's where he want to be, it's where he should have been 18 months ago, and it's where he's most comfortable.

I think this whole thing of him not taking responsibility is garbage. This isn't one day stuff and he might have to be fully on it for full week, so let's give him the best possible chance to succeed. He's the skipper, he's the most important player in the team, and he's most comfortable (and most effective) at 4 so let him get on with his jobs. At least you've dropped this claim that he's refused to move.

Bit unconvinced on Livingstone on what I have seen, I'd have him in ahead of Vince

This squad is ridiculous mind, they picked it too soon after the ashes, basically just picked the squad they had with them and another batsman

No thought has gone into it.

 

[Parkside]

Yeah I would have both Root and Bairstow at 3 and 4 as well, of course I can people's argument for Root at 4, however how long and how many players need to fail at 3 before a change happens

As for Leach it is difficult to know how good a bowler he is, as the wicket at Taunton has been soo heavily favoured in the extreme to spin bowling in the last couple of years,which has helped him massively.

However guess if we don't give him a go we will never know.

Dominic Bess has equally impressive figures which confirms that playing at Turnton has much to do with it. The best young spinner I've seen is Mathew Parkinson at Lancs.
We've had a specialist spinning mentor Peter Such in place for about 5 years now with no end product -another case of job for the boys. Instead of meaningless Lions tours young spinners would be better employed spending a winter abroad playing good club cricket on the sub continent,likewise our fast bowlers in Australia. FTECB.

 

[Voice of fair play]

The fact that he was at 3 all through 2016 and his average dropped by 10 points notwithstanding? Would it not just be a case of spoiling what you have while not solving any problems. I hope they put Liam straight in at 3, it's where he want to be, it's where he should have been 18 months ago, and it's where he's most comfortable.

I think this whole thing of him not taking responsibility is garbage. This isn't one day stuff and he might have to be fully on it for full week, so let's give him the best possible chance to succeed. He's the skipper, he's the most important player in the team, and he's most comfortable (and most effective) at 4 so let him get on with his jobs. At least you've dropped this claim that he's refused to move.

Well yeah fair enough the refused to move thing I picked up from other posters saying he had made it clear he would not move.

So if you want to pick me up on that point that's fair enough.

I have no idea tbh whether he has refuses or not, but what is clear is that we have unfairly chucked new players into the number 3 position when they clearly have not been ready while a world class batsman bats just one place lower.


What totally confuses me is this what he is comfortable with!! If he goes out to bat with the same bat on the same wicket early in our innings (which happens very frequently) what diffrence does the actual number mean to him?

He surely is now used to been in very early in the innings.

IMO just one place above will make not much if any difference to Roots performance, but batting new players at 6 instead of 3 would make a difference to new players and allow their confidence to be built up and not destroyed soo early in their test career.

 

[brandon]

But that is going off the view that stepping up to 3 is some great macho thing, its not

If he goes in at 3 we still need a number 4 like

I just don't understand this point of view. I'd bat him at 3 probably but batting higher up the order doesn't mean you are taking more responsibility you know. It is a more specialised position that is all.



Bit unconvinced on Livingstone on what I have seen, I'd have him in ahead of Vince

This squad is ridiculous mind, they picked it too soon after the ashes, basically just picked the squad they had with them and another batsman

No thought has gone into it.

I'm playing Devils advocate mainly, but what I feel about it overall is number 3 is far and away our most pressing matter - if Root was to go there and prove to be a success, that problem would be solved. As for the then vacancy and potential problem at 4? Personally I feel we have 5/6 capable enough players who could slot into that role. Even if we didn't though, my opinion is that it's more important for a team to be solid at 3 than 4.

 

[The Rat]

I'm playing Devils advocate mainly, but what I feel about it overall is number 3 is far and away our most pressing matter - if Root was to go there and prove to be a success, that problem would be solved. As for the then vacancy and potential problem at 4? Personally I feel we have 5/6 capable enough players who could slot into that role. Even if we didn't though, my opinion is that it's more important for a team to be solid at 3 than 4.

Not a bad argument

 

[WCC]

Mason Crane returned home (stress fracture in his back) replaced by Jack Leach.

 

[The Rat]

Mason Crane returned home (stress fracture in his back) replaced by Jack Leach.

Never nice to see a lad injured, but this is about time.

He is no world beater, but he is the best spinner in CC by some distances, lets give him a long run.

 

[Jack Torrance]

Leach finally

 

[Steak Pie]

Well yeah fair enough the refused to move thing I picked up from other posters saying he had made it clear he would not move.

So if you want to pick me up on that point that's fair enough.

I have no idea tbh whether he has refuses or not, but what is clear is that we have unfairly chucked new players into the number 3 position when they clearly have not been ready while a world class batsman bats just one place lower.

What totally confuses me is this what he is comfortable with!! If he goes out to bat with the same bat on the same wicket early in our innings (which happens very frequently) what diffrence does the actual number mean to him?

He surely is now used to been in very early in the innings.

IMO just one place above will make not much if any difference to Roots performance, but batting new players at 6 instead of 3 would make a difference to new players and allow their confidence to be built up and not destroyed soo early in their test career.

I'll pick anyone up on it, as it isn't true.

There's a decent difference in time (even with the number three bats we've had) and even if it's just 20-30 minutes it might be something he feels he needs after captaining a side in the field all day. Maybe be's superstitious, maybe he's just looking at the numbers and realises it's where he scores the most runs. Elite sportsmen are strange beasts.

Anyway, TMS are reporting that Vince will bat a three in the first Test. In which case, I f***ing give up and will happily agree with moving Root there instead of that gonk. In fact, I'll happily agree with moving Jimmy Anderson to three.

 

[Voice of fair play]

I'll pick anyone up on it, as it isn't true.

There's a decent difference in time (even with the number three bats we've had) and even if it's just 20-30 minutes it might be something he feels he needs after captaining a side in the field all day. Maybe be's superstitious, maybe he's just looking at the numbers and realises it's where he scores the most runs. Elite sportsmen are strange beasts.

Anyway, TMS are reporting that Vince will bat a three in the first Test. In which case, I f***ing give up and will happily agree with moving Root there instead of that gonk. In fact, I'll happily agree with moving Jimmy Anderson to three.

Very surprised they have went for Vince ahead of Libingstone!