Voice of fair play
Striker
Nobody should be able to choose where they bat,nobody should be able to choose what position they play in football.
No matter who you are!!
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NZ v England tests
- Thread starter chunkyshanhawk53
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Nobody should be able to choose where they bat,nobody should be able to choose what position they play in football.
No matter who you are!!
Steak Pie
Striker
So no then. I didn't think so, and I think this bullshit needs to be nipped in the bud.
OK, so he's not brave like Aussie captain Steve Smith... Oh no, shit, wait, he comes in a 4 as well. OK, so he's not a warrior like Indian captain Virat Kohli, erm, oops no, he's a 4 as well.
You get the point.
I disagree.
Cook chooses to bat at 1
Root is our best player as well as being captain. He should be placed in the team where he will be most efficient in both of his roles
Voice of fair play
Striker
Been placed where it suits the team been the important point not where he wants to bat.
There is two key points on this debate for me,one over the last few years he has been in really early anyway and continued to score runs so on all known evidence why would batting at 3 stop him scoring the same runs?
Secondly rookie new players to test cricket have been thrown in at the deep end and arguably confidence destroyed just because he willl not move up one position.
Big players should take responsibility in all sports not leave it to new players.
Agree with that point, just not necessarily agree that Root is the man to fill the no.3 position. If he wasn't captain (I never agreed with him being appointed) then I agree he should be the pivotal player at No.3 but the extra burden of captaincy should allow him to be lower down the order
Root batting at 3 would be ridiculous imo.
It's not 'best for the team' if he contributes 15 less per innings than he does at 4.
It's not 'best for the team' if he contributes 15 less per innings than he does at 4.
Succinct and impeccable logic. Have you considered applying for one of those scouting posts?
Indeed.
However it's quite clear he's not 'stepped up to the plate'. For all we know, it could be the coaches/management telling him he can't go 3.
Voice of fair play
Striker
Why would he not score the same runs one postiton higher,seen as he is a class act and in the last few years has been in quite early anyway?
rentaghost
Striker
I agree with you a lot but I don't think its that ridiculous. He's quality and batting at 3 or 4 you are still holding the same bat, facing the same bowlers, can be in after 2 balls of an innings rather than one and if he is in when the ball is moving about he's our best player to cope with the moving ball. It also allows us to not carry a player. I'm 50/50 on it tbh.
Yeah I know you can be in after two balls but if you look at it statistically there must on average be a 10ish over gap between the first and second wicket going down.
Those 45 minutes can be vital in letting him clear his head after pre match interviews/ captaining us mopping up the tail in the previous innings.
Our most successful side had 2/3 blockers in the top three to protect our stroke players (Bell/ Pietersen) from that moving ball. It's not pretty to watch but it works as a formula for me.
rentaghost
Striker
I think that's the key though we had Cook, Strauss etc who were top notch. If we had Bell at his best, Pietersen and a quality top 3 we wouldn't been having the discussion. Its a good point of debate IMO.
Steak Pie
Striker
Bit harsh on someone who would be in anyone's World XI to say he hasn't stepped up. As I said, he went in at 3 pretty much all of 2016 before he took the captaincy and averaged about 10 clicks less, so maybe it's just simply a case of tried and failed so don't make the same mistakes again.
I don't think it's any co-incidence that Root, Smith and Kholi all bat at four. But it's only in England that the skipper gets stick for it.
Voice of fair play
Striker
I think it's because we have not got a consistent performer like Pujara at 3, don't think anyone would have any issue at all Root batting at 4 if it wasn't for the fact whoever has batted at 3 has failed time and time again.
It's the fact that at number 3 over the last 2 years we have tried a number of players mostly new players and all have failed and that a lot of times we are 2 wickets down for next to nothing that people are now suggesting he bats just one place higher and take that responsibility, and don't it's too much to ask.
Isn't that the whole point though with England over the last 2 years there has not been a 10 over gap between the first and second wicket because of constant failings of the number 3 , so Root has many times been at the crease batting 4 as early as you would normally be batting 3 and he has been successful, therefore he may as well bat at 3, which would allow a another batsman to bat further down the order to build confidence up, and England may only lose 1 wicket early rather than the inevitable 2.
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There is too much focus on Root's position, I might have him at 3 now, but its certainly not a macho thing. I mean most of the best players play at 4. He has a better record at 4 too.
I'd personally move Root to 3 and Bairstow to 4.
Only because we have struggled so badly away from home. In English conditions I think the long tail of Ali at 8 and Bairstow at 7 works really really well
I changed my mind on Bairstow as he was so reckless during the Ashes, got out to do some ridiculous shots on slow pitches. He needs to take more responsibility, and not leave it to someone else.
The biggest issue is the spin bowling
It is beyond a farce that Crane is going ahead of Leach after that Lions tour, what more evidence do they need? They pick players just because they are ahead of the queue by being in the last test squad.
Ali went 4 an over again in the war mup, that will continue in the test series. He only plays as a batsman and 2nd spin option abroad, or a 1st spinner at 8 at home in England.
7 more away tests wasted without picking another spinner
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A
Ageing trundler
Guest
The spinner is a real issue and half of our away tests are played on pitches where it turns square. It would be a big ask of Leach to play his first test in the sub-continent and expect him to win us the game.
Voice of fair play
Striker
Yeah I would have both Root and Bairstow at 3 and 4 as well, of course I can people's argument for Root at 4, however how long and how many players need to fail at 3 before a change happens.
Bairstow should definitely bat higher up for me, he is clearly one of the best batsman in the team, and one of your best batsman should not be that low.
I think it was the second or third test in the ashes, we were fighting to save the game, and with a night watchman he actually ended up batting 8! in the match and making a low score not out and been stranded, that was criminal imo.
As for Leach it is difficult to know how good a bowler he is, as the wicket at Taunton has been soo heavily favoured in the extreme to spin bowling in the last couple of years,which has helped him massively.
However guess if we don't give him a go we will never know.
A
Ageing trundler
Guest
If there was no T20 international cricket we could have proper warm up games.
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