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Newcastle thread Oct and Nov 2020

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The Fish said:
Because they've changed the football style from that which existed at the start of their tenure and he hasn't?
Potter changed a side that played pragmatic, counter attack football, hitting the targetman with long balls, into a pressing team that look to play the ball on the deck.

No, because being hard to beat and being beaten aren't the necessarily the same thing. e.g. RB would lose by the odd goal, SB's team gets beaten comfortably, but they're both recorded as a loss. Compare the GA columns. Look at the football with unbiased eyes.
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But they haven't improved them?

You are attacking Bruce on no basis. He is a poor manager but he's done a good job at Newcastle so far
 

The Fish said:
More to it. Ashley wouldn't have sanctioned deals for Wilson, Lewis previously as their value would have been at pre-COVID levels, rather than the reduced levels we're seeing now. Benitez was after those types of players, but at the time signing someone like Wilson would have been too rich for MA's blood. e.g. Wilson is 28 and Newcastle spent c£20m on him, Rondon was 28 and NUFC wouldn't spend £16m on him.

Also, Ashley wouldn't allow Benitez to spend the money available the way he wanted, but would allow the £40m purchase of a striker. Ashley has since let Bruce spend the money available on the areas SB wants.

If Benitez had had the control enjoyed by McClaren and Bruce, a) he wouldn't have left and, b) NUFC would have had a better squad than they did during his time.

You're comparing Steve -worst W% in the PL- Bruce with Ferguson and Clough? Talk about an absolutely clueless post.
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f***ing hell man you really do embarrass yasel when you try and defend Benitez it's f***ing tragic
 
Banks said:
But they haven't improved them?

You are attacking Bruce on no basis. He is a poor manager but he's done a good job at Newcastle so far
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I'm attacking Bruce based on a more in-depth assessment of his football than simply looking at the league position at the end of the season. For the season and a bit he's been in charge Bruce is one of the worst managers in the league by pretty much every performance metric.

You're defending Bruce based on the fact Newcastle fans don't rate him.
 
The Fish said:
Because they've changed the football style from that which existed at the start of their tenure and he hasn't?
Potter changed a side that played pragmatic, counter attack football, hitting the targetman with long balls, into a pressing team that look to play the ball on the deck.

No, because being hard to beat and being beaten aren't the necessarily the same thing. e.g. RB would lose by the odd goal, SB's team gets beaten comfortably, but they're both recorded as a loss. Compare the GA columns. Look at the football with unbiased eyes.
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You're the one with biased eyes man.

Their records are nigh on identical but ones a world class visionary with a project and the other is a fat useless dinosaur.

FWIW I think Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just admit he's done just as good a job (if not better) than the world class one.
 
The Fish said:
I'm attacking Bruce based on a more in-depth assessment of his football than simply looking at the league position at the end of the season. For the season and a bit he's been in charge Bruce is one of the worst managers in the league by pretty much every performance metric.

You're defending Bruce based on the fact Newcastle fans don't rate him.
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I know a lad at work who has been a ST holder at SJP for years he hated Benitez and said it was the worst football he's watched for years. He doesn't particularly like Bruce but he says the football is no worse now than it was then
 
The Fish said:
I'm attacking Bruce based on a more in-depth assessment of his football than simply looking at the league position at the end of the season. For the season and a bit he's been in charge Bruce is one of the worst managers in the league by pretty much every performance metric.

You're defending Bruce based on the fact Newcastle fans don't rate him.
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Do he wouldn't of sanctioned a deal for Lewis and Wilson but sanctioned one for 40 mill for joelinton
 
Fish is like a an absolute caricature>
The Fish said:
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He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Bruce gets credit for ASM, but no criticism for £40m on Joelinton? or Krafth? That's convenient.

I find it hilarious that the same Sunderland fans who were calling Bruce out for his limitations when he was their manager are now defending him purely because he's the boss at Newcastle. It's f***ing weird behaviour. If Carver took over at Sunderland, I wouldn't try to make out he's anything but a shit manager.
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The issue has never necessarily been SAFC fans lauding Bruce. Mainly it had been SAFC fans pointing out that Bruce apparently a useless, dinosaur of a manager is in fact doing better than the much lauded genius that is the FSW. Better in terms of average points per game at the top level for NUFC 1.19 pg compared to 1.21 and better in the cups and this is a large sample. Never in my life would you try and argue game data over results over those sample of games. It just doesn’t matter in the slightest no one cares. Of course Joelinton isn’t down to Bruce he was through the door virtually the same day as Bruce for 40 mill the fee that people use against him. He deserves credit for ASM only in so much that he gives him freedom and focussed onhis strengths which Rafa wouldn’t do. Honestly you come across like a love sick teenager over an ex manager that did a pretty big standard job.
 
Binxy said:
You're the one with biased eyes man.

Their records are nigh on identical but ones a world class visionary with a project and the other is a fat useless dinosaur.

FWIW I think Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just admit he's done just as good a job (if not better) than the world class one.
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I watch the games, I look at the records, I pore over the stats, I listen to fans of my club and the fans of clubs he's managed before. All of this shows Bruce is a bad Premier League manager. Only in the world of "I hate Newcastle" could you possibly concoct a version of reality where Bruce is as good a football manager as Benitez.

Even if you forget about Benitez and look solely at the football we've played under the majority of Bruce's tenure, anyone with half a football brain can see it's a mess; Don't score a lot, do concede a lot, don't create chances, do give up chances, don't press, aren't solid.

And if you are happy to admit that Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just what are you arguing about? That he gets less credit for playing his shitshow of a system, than Benitez got for his solid, if boring, football?
 
The Fish said:
I watch the games, I look at the records, I pore over the stats, I listen to fans of my club and the fans of clubs he's managed before. All of this shows Bruce is a bad Premier League manager. Only in the world of "I hate Newcastle" could you possibly concoct a version of reality where Bruce is as good a football manager as Benitez.

Even if you forget about Benitez and look solely at the football we've played under the majority of Bruce's tenure, anyone with half a football brain can see it's a mess; Don't score a lot, do concede a lot, don't create chances, do give up chances, don't press, aren't solid.

And if you are happy to admit that Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just what are you arguing about? That he gets less credit for playing his shitshow of a system, than Benitez got for his solid, if boring, football?
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Basically your last paragraph sums it up.

Just admit man Rafa was no better than Bruce, you'll feel better for it.
 
The Fish said:
I'm attacking Bruce based on a more in-depth assessment of his football than simply looking at the league position at the end of the season. For the season and a bit he's been in charge Bruce is one of the worst managers in the league by pretty much every performance metric.
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Other than the one that actually matters?
 
The Fish said:
I watch the games, I look at the records, I pore over the stats, I listen to fans of my club and the fans of clubs he's managed before. All of this shows Bruce is a bad Premier League manager. Only in the world of "I hate Newcastle" could you possibly concoct a version of reality where Bruce is as good a football manager as Benitez.

Even if you forget about Benitez and look solely at the football we've played under the majority of Bruce's tenure, anyone with half a football brain can see it's a mess; Don't score a lot, do concede a lot, don't create chances, do give up chances, don't press, aren't solid.

And if you are happy to admit that Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just what are you arguing about? That he gets less credit for playing his shitshow of a system, than Benitez got for his solid, if boring, football?
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Dyche must be a genius compared to Rafa,usually finishes higher on a tiny budget same sort of team set up hard to break down boring to watch
 
The Fish said:
I watch the games, I look at the records, I pore over the stats, I listen to fans of my club and the fans of clubs he's managed before. All of this shows Bruce is a bad Premier League manager. Only in the world of "I hate Newcastle" could you possibly concoct a version of reality where Bruce is as good a football manager as Benitez.

Even if you forget about Benitez and look solely at the football we've played under the majority of Bruce's tenure, anyone with half a football brain can see it's a mess; Don't score a lot, do concede a lot, don't create chances, do give up chances, don't press, aren't solid.

And if you are happy to admit that Bruce is a fat useless dinosaur, just what are you arguing about? That he gets less credit for playing his shitshow of a system, than Benitez got for his solid, if boring, football?
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Bruce isn’t as good a football manager as Benitez. However he had done a better job for NUFC in terms of points per games, progress in cups. You would think you would be pleased. You got a once great manager who did a bit shit and a shit one that’s doing not bad.
 
rentaghost said:
Bruce isn’t as good a football manager as Benitez. However he had done a better job for NUFC in terms of points per games, progress in cups. You would think you would be pleased. You got a once great manager who did a bit shit and a shit one that’s doing not bad.
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It's all about the image with them.
Benitez made them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and made them feel relevant.
 
I don't get why people even bother comparing Bruce and Benitez tbh. The teams they had are wildly different.

Say what you want about Benitez but he could stop a bull running through tissue paper with his tactics. It's not always exhilarating but it's basically how he won two league titles. Ashley knew he could get away with signing Championship players if he had him in charge. The second Bruce rocks up he's spent big on the likes of Wilson, Joelinton, Saint-Maximin and others. I don't think Benitez would have had them playing sexy samba football, but they might have been more efficient/clinical.
 
It's all about having a "Big Name Manager" so they feel like one of the Elite to them Lads. Benitez could have took them down to where we are and they would still slaver over him as he's won stuff elsewhere in Europe. He's been a busted flush for years. Bruce could win a Cup or get them into Europe or even have a better record than Bouncy and they would still call him shite. It's called delusion and self entitlement.
 
Carrick18 said:
I don't get why people even bother comparing Bruce and Benitez tbh. The teams they had are wildly different.

Say what you want about Benitez but he could stop a bull running through tissue paper with his tactics. It's not always exhilarating but it's basically how he won two league titles. Ashley knew he could get away with signing Championship players if he had him in charge. The second Bruce rocks up he's spent big on the likes of Wilson, Joelinton, Saint-Maximin and others. I don't think Benitez would have had them playing sexy samba football, but they might have been more efficient/clinical.
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Wilson and Joelinton.
Well Rafa had better in Rondon and Perez.
 
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