Newcastle thread Oct and Nov 2020

[The Fish]

Sorry I said broadly the same what I really meant was slightly better with a better premiership points ratio and having to do so last season with Joelinton who was forced on him instead of Rondon and Perez who were very good players for Rafa. If his squad is better then its only right now that its the case with Wilson and Fraser being bought in on frees. Bruce maybe relies on ASM a lot but Rafa wouldn't have entertained him more concerned about what he cant do than can.

He did a right number on a percentage of your fans you included.

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2020-21

He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Absolute rubbish to suggest he had a better squad last season mind. Front 2 of Carroll & Joelinton is better than Rondon & Perez is it?

Only improvement was the Saint who was bought by Bruce.

This season I would say you do have a better squad, Bruce deserves credit for that.

Rafa spunked his transfer money on utter shite most of the time, at least Bruce brings in players who improve your team. He deserves credit for that

Rafa was a fraud it's embarrassing the idolisation he gets for doing absolutely nothing at NUFC bar a promotion that Hughton also achieved.

Bruce gets credit for ASM, but no criticism for £40m on Joelinton? or Krafth? That's convenient.

I find it hilarious that the same Sunderland fans who were calling Bruce out for his limitations when he was their manager are now defending him purely because he's the boss at Newcastle. It's f***ing weird behaviour. If Carver took over at Sunderland, I wouldn't try to make out he's anything but a shit manager.

 

[Zinedine Kilbane]

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2020-21

He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Absolutely tiny difference in those margins. He got the same points as Rafa did in 2017-18 season, 1 point less than last season.

He came in half way through pre-season with very little time to properly prepare for the season when Rafa walked out.

He's had a full year to assess the players and a summer to re-build the team, lets see how he gets on this season. I have a feeling a lot of Mags will have egg on their face come the end of this season. Top 6 and already in a league cup quarter final, most likely to be a semi-final as well.

More than Rafa ever done for you

		38	12	8	18	39	47	44	10th	R4	R2				10
		38	12	9	17	42	48	45	13th	R4	R2				13
		38	11	11	16	38	58	44	13th	QF	R2				8

2020-21

He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Bruce gets credit for ASM, but no criticism for £40m on Joelinton? or Krafth? That's convenient.

I find it hilarious that the same Sunderland fans who were calling Bruce out for his limitations when he was their manager are now defending him purely because he's the boss at Newcastle. It's f***ing weird behaviour. If Carver took over at Sunderland, I wouldn't try to make out he's anything but a shit manager.

Bruce had absolutely nothing to do with the signing of Joelinton, you're well aware that a scout advised Ashley to sign him and he did. Bruce had no say in that deal

		38	12	8	18	39	47	44	10th	R4	R2				10
		38	12	9	17	42	48	45	13th	R4	R2				13
		38	11	11	16	38	58	44	13th	QF	R2				8

2020-21

He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Bruce gets credit for ASM, but no criticism for £40m on Joelinton? or Krafth? That's convenient.

I find it hilarious that the same Sunderland fans who were calling Bruce out for his limitations when he was their manager are now defending him purely because he's the boss at Newcastle. It's f***ing weird behaviour. If Carver took over at Sunderland, I wouldn't try to make out he's anything but a shit manager.

Joelinton had absolutely nothing to do with the signing of Joelinton, you're well aware that a scout advised Ashley to sign him and he did. Bruce had no say in that deal

And look back at my posting history, I said Bruce should never have been sacked. That was the start of our downfall, unpopular opinion on here but it's the truth. We wouldn't be as low as we are now if we had stuck with him. Short sightedness of modern football, sack people when the going get tough, It's bull shit

 

[Roker Mackem]

Spawny twats

 

[The Fish]

Absolutely tiny difference in those margins. He got the same points as Rafa did in 2017-18 season, 1 point less than last season.

He came in half way through pre-season with very little time to properly prepare for the season when Rafa walked out.

He's had a full year to assess the players and a summer to re-build the team, lets see how he gets on this season. I have a feeling a lot of Mags will have egg on their face come the end of this season. Top 6 and already in a league cup quarter final, most likely to be a semi-final as well.

More than Rafa ever done for you


Joelinton had absolutely nothing to do with the signing of Joelinton, you're well aware that a scout advised Ashley to sign him and he did. Bruce had no say in that deal


Joelinton had absolutely nothing to do with the signing of Joelinton, you're well aware that a scout advised Ashley to sign him and he did. Bruce had no say in that deal

And look back at my posting history, I said Bruce should never have been sacked. That was the start of our downfall, unpopular opinion on here but it's the truth. We wouldn't be as low as we are now if we had stuck with him. Short sightedness of modern football, sack people when the going get tough, It's bull shit

But he doesn't have a better points ratio than Benitez in the Premier League, which was the claim.

He had the whole 19/20 season to get Newcastle playing a different style, this front foot football he spoke about, but said it would take time to change. Hassenhutl managed it in weeks, Potter has totally changed Brighton, Rodgers changed Leicester as well. Why's it taking Bruce so long? Why were will still playing a passive low block against Brighton, Newport, Spurs?

If Bruce had no say in that deal, he doesn't get credit for Saint Maximin either.

Bruce was a limited manager when he took you to 7th, he's not improved, not kept pace with the changing face of football.

 

[Gucci Massive]

They're genuinely the worst team I've watched this season and that includes teams in the football league. No idea, no pattern, and Bruce throwing out excuses like its rice at a wedding. Having horrible flashbacks to 2011.

No chance they'll go down this season though. They'll finish around 14th

 

[Banks]

But he doesn't have a better points ratio than Benitez in the Premier League, which was the claim.

He had the whole 19/20 season to get Newcastle playing a different style, this front foot football he spoke about, but said it would take time to change. Hassenhutl managed it in weeks, Potter has totally changed Brighton, Rodgers changed Leicester as well. Why's it taking Bruce so long? Why were will still playing a passive low block against Brighton, Newport, Spurs?

If Bruce had no say in that deal, he doesn't get credit for Saint Maximin either.

Bruce was a limited manager when he took you to 7th, he's not improved, not kept pace with the changing face of football.

Absolutley clueless post.

Some of the greatest managers ever in Ferguson and Clough didn't have instant success.

 

[mr chuckles]

By having better players in it.

Isn't that down to the manager buying / signing better players or am I being whooshed?

 

[The Fish]

Isn't that down to the manager buying / signing better players or am I being whooshed?

More to it. Ashley wouldn't have sanctioned deals for Wilson, Lewis previously as their value would have been at pre-COVID levels, rather than the reduced levels we're seeing now. Benitez was after those types of players, but at the time signing someone like Wilson would have been too rich for MA's blood. e.g. Wilson is 28 and Newcastle spent c£20m on him, Rondon was 28 and NUFC wouldn't spend £16m on him.

Also, Ashley wouldn't allow Benitez to spend the money available the way he wanted, but would allow the £40m purchase of a striker. Ashley has since let Bruce spend the money available on the areas SB wants.

If Benitez had had the control enjoyed by McClaren and Bruce, a) he wouldn't have left and, b) NUFC would have had a better squad than they did during his time.

Absolutley clueless post.

Some of the greatest managers ever in Ferguson and Clough didn't have instant success.

You're comparing Steve -worst W% in the PL- Bruce with Ferguson and Clough? Talk about an absolutely clueless post.

 

[Binxy]

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2020-21

He doesn't have a better Premier League points ratio (99pts/76g= 1.30PpG v 51pts/42g= 1.21PpG). He doesn't have a better W% (31.6% v 30.9%), he doesn't have a GFpG ratio (1.06 v 1.04), or GApG ratio(1.25 v 1.5).

Bruce gets credit for ASM, but no criticism for £40m on Joelinton? or Krafth? That's convenient.

I find it hilarious that the same Sunderland fans who were calling Bruce out for his limitations when he was their manager are now defending him purely because he's the boss at Newcastle. It's f***ing weird behaviour. If Carver took over at Sunderland, I wouldn't try to make out he's anything but a shit manager.

What about the 10 games which you were Rafagated or does that not suit your agenda?

 

[Banks]

More to it. Ashley wouldn't have sanctioned deals for Wilson, Lewis previously as their value would have been at pre-COVID levels, rather than the reduced levels we're seeing now. Benitez was after those types of players, but at the time signing someone like Wilson would have been too rich for MA's blood. e.g. Wilson is 28 and Newcastle spent c£20m on him, Rondon was 28 and NUFC wouldn't spend £16m on him.

Also, Ashley wouldn't allow Benitez to spend the money available the way he wanted, but would allow the £40m purchase of a striker. Ashley has since let Bruce spend the money available on the areas SB wants.

If Benitez had had the control enjoyed by McClaren and Bruce, a) he wouldn't have left and, b) NUFC would have had a better squad than they did during his time.

You're comparing Steve -worst W% in the PL- Bruce with Ferguson and Clough? Talk about an absolutely clueless post.

So are you saying no manager who has started slowly has ever been a success?

You are making that exact argument asking why Potter and Rodgers could make instant improvements.

So yeah your clueless

 

[The Fish]

What about the 10 games which you were Rafagated or does that not suit your agenda?

The 10 games where it wasn't his team, he didn't have any time to get his ideas across before a competitive fixture?
Glad you brought them up.

10

3

4

3

16

12

+4

13

Benitez 112/86 = 1.302PpG
Bruce 51/42 = 1.214PpG

RB W% 31.4
SB W% 30.9

RB GpG 1.12
SB GpG 1.04

RB GApG 1.24
SB GApG 1.5

So, still worse in every category.

So are you saying no manager who has started slowly has ever been a success?

You are making that exact argument asking why Potter and Rodgers could make instant improvements.

So yeah your clueless

Bruce has had over a season to change things, including 2 transfer windows (if we discount the first one with Joelinton and ASM) but he hasn't. And, given his history at various clubs playing the same kind of disorganised, botched football, it's fair to suggest he hasn't the wherewithal to change things for the better.

 

[Binxy]

The 10 games where it wasn't his team, he didn't have any time to get his ideas across before a competitive fixture?
Glad you brought them up.

10

3

4

3

16

12

+4

13

Benitez 112/86 = 1.302PpG
Bruce 51/42 = 1.214PpG

RB W% 31.4
SB W% 30.9

RB GpG 1.12
SB GpG 1.04

RB GApG 1.24
SB GApG 1.5

So, still worse in every category.

Bruce has had over a season to change things, including 2 transfer windows (if we discount the first one with Joelinton and ASM) but he hasn't. And, given his history at various clubs playing the same kind of disorganised, botched football, it's fair to suggest he hasn't the wherewithal to change things for the better.

And what exactly did Rafa change?
You were shit when he arrived and were shit when he left with a worse squad.

 

[Banks]

The 10 games where it wasn't his team, he didn't have any time to get his ideas across before a competitive fixture?
Glad you brought them up.

10

3

4

3

16

12

+4

13

Benitez 112/86 = 1.302PpG
Bruce 51/42 = 1.214PpG

RB W% 31.4
SB W% 30.9

RB GpG 1.12
SB GpG 1.04

RB GApG 1.24
SB GApG 1.5

So, still worse in every category.

Bruce has had over a season to change things, including 2 transfer windows (if we discount the first one with Joelinton and ASM) but he hasn't. And, given his history at various clubs playing the same kind of disorganised, botched football, it's fair to suggest he hasn't the wherewithal to change things for the better.

So you are guessing.

I'd also like the question how Bruce hasn't done a similar job to Potter and Rodgers?

Brighton are still a lower half club and Leicester finished 5th under Rodgers. Bruce is performing exactly how he should be at Newcastle just as Potter and Rodgers are

 

[The Fish]

And what exactly did Rafa change?
You were shit when he arrived and were shit when he left with a worse squad.

Skirting over the 10 games you specifically asked me to include Binxy? Can't think why...

Benitez changed us from a team that was disjointed, disorganised, and easy to beat into the opposite. He changed the culture of the squad from gutless mercenaries to a committed collective.
McClaren should have had that Newcastle team comfortably midtable; Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Perez, etc. Benitez overhauled the squad, brought in the types of personality and standard that would get us promoted, then keep us up and his last purchase was clearly an attempt to evolve the squad he'd built to be more attacking.

Was the squad worse purely in terms of ability? Yeah, it probably was, because we'd been relegated and couldn't keep hold of players like the aforementioned Sissoko, Wijnaldum, etc. But that worse squad looked better and finished higher in the Premier League than McClaren's more talented group.

 

[Mackem00]

I don't like the mags and think Steve Bruce is an arse.

 

[Binxy]

Skirting over the 10 games you specifically asked me to include Binxy? Can't think why...

Benitez changed us from a team that was disjointed, disorganised, and easy to beat into the opposite. He changed the culture of the squad from gutless mercenaries to a committed collective.
McClaren should have had that Newcastle team comfortably midtable; Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Perez, etc. Benitez overhauled the squad, brought in the types of personality and standard that would get us promoted, then keep us up and his last purchase was clearly an attempt to evolve the squad he'd built to be more attacking.

Was the squad worse purely in terms of ability? Yeah, it probably was, because we'd been relegated and couldn't keep hold of players like the aforementioned Sissoko, Wijnaldum, etc. But that worse squad looked better and finished higher in the Premier League than McClaren's more talented group.

So Rafa changed you from a team easy to beat into the opposite.

So would you say Bruce as done a similar job to Rafa considering Bruce as lost 40% of his games against Rafas 46%?

 

[Scunny Dan]

Got some good PR has Benitez. Took Newcastle down, then back up with a monster 2nd tier budget. Then achieved nothing of note, before buggering off for wages.

What a hero.

 

[Laidback Jack]

Both Bruce and Rafa did/are doing fairly average jobs a NUFC. Rafa failed to keep the Mags up,got them promoted fair enough then had 2/3 seasons in mid-table.

A decent job but far from spectacular. Bruce has had the the Mags mid-table. Very similar PPG and I think they'll end up between 10-14th. Where they were just about under Rafa.

The major major difference is in positioning themselves in the whole NUFC Fans v Ashley saga. Rafa very shrewdly positioned himself on the side of the fans and deflected any negative aspect of his reign onto Mr Sports Direct (Possibly in attempt to preserve his reputation-post Newcastle).

On the other hand Bruce (Because it's his alleged dream job) is so desperate to stay in the role he will pander to Ashley to protect his job and future and therefore immediately is disliked by the Newcastle fans.

I find a lot of Mags hate Ashley more than they love NUFC.

 

[Deleted member 47406]

No chance they'll go down this season though. They'll finish around 14th

I'm not convinced. Wouldn't shock me at all if they went down.

Both Bruce and Rafa did/are doing fairly average jobs a NUFC. Rafa failed to keep the Mags up,got them promoted fair enough then had 2/3 seasons in mid-table.

A decent job but far from spectacular. Bruce has had the the Mags mid-table. Very similar PPG and I think they'll end up between 10-14th. Where they were just about under Rafa.

The major major difference is in positioning themselves in the whole NUFC Fans v Ashley saga. Rafa very shrewdly positioned himself on the side of the fans and deflected any negative aspect of his reign onto Mr Sports Direct (Possibly in attempt to preserve his reputation-post Newcastle).

On the other hand Bruce (Because it's his alleged dream job) is so desperate to stay in the role he will pander to Ashley to protect his job and future and therefore immediately is disliked by the Newcastle fans.

I find a lot of Mags hate Ashley more than they love NUFC.

Bruce is desperate because he's not getting a Premier League job again. He couldn't give a shit about Newcastle, but it makes for nice copy. I'd go as far to say I find Benitez's love for Newcastle more believeable than Bruce.

 

[The Fish]

So you are guessing.

I'd also like the question how Bruce hasn't done a similar job to Potter and Rodgers?

Brighton are still a lower half club and Leicester finished 5th under Rodgers. Bruce is performing exactly how he should be at Newcastle just as Potter and Rodgers are

Because they've changed the football style from that which existed at the start of their tenure and he hasn't?
Potter changed a side that played pragmatic, counter attack football, hitting the targetman with long balls, into a pressing team that look to play the ball on the deck.

So Rafa changed you from a team easy to beat into the opposite.

So would you say Bruce as done a similar job to Rafa considering Bruce as lost 40% of his games against Rafas 46%?

No, because being hard to beat and being beaten aren't the necessarily the same thing. e.g. RB would lose by the odd goal, SB's team gets beaten comfortably, but they're both recorded as a loss. Compare the GA columns. Look at the football with unbiased eyes.