D
Deleted member 6830
Guest
Mag
-
The forums will be unavailable for a few hours on Saturday 6th June, when they do return they will initially be in a degraded state with some features missing, but normal posting/reading will be possible. The main website will not be affected by these updates.
New user registrations are currently disabled.
Some other features of the forum are also currently disabled.
Newcastle FC
- Thread starter robcal
- Start date
- Status
Binxy
Striker
WTFMag
R
Reiver
Guest
Its truly bizarre and quite amusing how much time the Mags spend on here trying to prove their points.
Those points appear to be that ...
- Ashley doesn't want to sell the club/is trying to sell the club but wants too much.
- Ashley isn't giving Benitez enough money but they don't know how much he wants or needs.
- Benitez has been lied to by Ashley but he loves the supporters too much to leave/is leaving but will still love the supporters when he goes to manage Leicester.
Last edited by a moderator:
Not at all. Sunderland has a larger population than Newcastle afterall.
After that I’m unsure on where you draw your lines with catchment areas ? Northumberland has a larger population than say Durham but what about fans from either club who live in each other’s catchment areas. How many fans live in South Tyneside and how do you measures that ? Who’s catchment area is that ?
On top of all that, using your theory, cities like Coventry, Leicester, Bradford, Leeds and Cardiff should all have larger crowds than us also. Why is that not the case with these cities and catchment areas ?
What about travelling fans. Do we discount ManU crowds as they are swelled by fans from Scandinavia ? How many Celtic / Rangers fans come from Ireland.
I’ve said countless times that Sunderland’s crowds are great but the catchment area argument is way to blurred to bring up.
D
Deleted member 6830
Guest
Thought you might discount it sadly.
Ref the actual cities, Newcastle has more because ours has houghton n Washington added to it as well you know.
Gateshead has a big population--140k+ iirc, North Tyneside conurbation is possibly more, Northumberland which includes likes of Morpeth and Hexham also has a big pop' almost exclusively mags but obvly not 100pc.
Fans generally support team closest to them/who Dad supported so it is blatantly obvious why Nufc would get more than us.
As for some of the other city clubs you mention, you do realise Leeds, Cardiff, Bradford and Leicester are big rugby cities ?
Keep putting up a defence and I'll take pleasure in shooting you down.
jonny gently
Winger
Oh we're a bigger City now. Funny Look North Korea should be told. You forgot about the Keegan effect which kinda mirrors the Man U effect on a smaller scale. Or is that an illusion too?
Roker Mackem
Striker
Nope not blurred at all. NUFC has a far bigger catchment area and thats obvious.
Also Newcastle has a larger population than Sunderland/Houghton/Washington
There are many reasons why any fan supports any club, but if you are going to deny that geographical proximity explains the vast percentage of attending fans then you are deluded on one more subject than we thought. It's not a theory - it's fact. Sunderland the city has a bigger population than Newcastle, the city but that is just the nucleus of catchment, fans travel from areas around that, who in the vast majority support their nearest team for peer pressure/family/local media and a hundred other reasons - from Gateshead to the Border and half way (arguably more) to Carlisle - NUFC are the closest team. The governments own official figures set Newcastle for Catchment purposes at 814,000 to Sunderland's 270,000 with areas large enough to be specifically listed within the North-East total swelling that to around 900,000 to 370,000. That's 1.27 Million from the total of 1.60 Million for Newcastle/Sunderland metropolitan area. Even taking a 50/50 split of the remanider which is geographical nonsense would give Newcastle 1.06Million to Sunderland's 530,000. This doesn't even include the Northern half of Northumberland or any of Cumbria.
So conservatively we are looking at something like 1.2 Million to 530,000 more than double. For a second opinion Newcastle Council put their catchment area as closest city at 1.3 Million, not much different.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 6830
Guest
Am not sure it does unless you tag on gateshead as after all there is a place called NewcastleGateshead now iirc
tunstallhill
Striker
of course they do. i work all over the north east, and i find the follwing places black and white:
90% Hexham, Gateshead, Morpeth, Ashington, Bedlington, Blyth, most of the Northumberland Coast, most of Whitley Bay and all of North Tyneside,
50% Durham, Jarrow, Hebburn, South Shields, Washington
whereas sunderland have, other than the city, 50% of the immediate surrounding areas (washy, shields etc..) 90% of seaham and the pit villages, and thats about it.
I'd say the mags 'catchment area' in terms of population is 5 x the size of ours. and probably the biggest in the country
D
Deleted member 6830
Guest
Oh dear Mad Cyril is as AC/DC used to sing, "shot down in flames"
I don’t have to defend. I put up valid points that your obviously going to disagree with that’s fair enough.
To me it’s simple and theres 3 reasons why we get bigger crowds. This is all factual, feel free to shoot down but you’re up against stone wall facts here !!
Firstly, as people have said. In recent years. We’ve been more successful with better teams playing in bigger competitions. Weve become more of a glamour club if you wish. Because of this we’ve gained more floating supporters. I’m unsure as to why we had consistently larger crowds in the 70’s and 80’s so I won’t put up a reason.
Secondly. I don’t believe Sunderland to be the hot bed of football that it makes out. In the north east region, the people of wearside and Durham simply aren’t into football as much as its more northern neighbours. At a professional level, it’s clear that NUFC have always pulled bigger numbers and the same applies to non league. Look at the northern league. Of the bottom 5 lowest average attendances, it’s the 3 Sunderland clubs and a Durham club who make it up( the other is Penrith ). The numbers don’t lie. The folk of Wearside aren’t as into watching live football as others.
Thirdly. I’d say financial reasons have stopped a lot of people going. It’s no secret Sunderland and Durham have been hit hard ecconomicaly. To the clubs ultimate credit they’ve done great things with free tickets, getting schools in etc but the financial downturn has undoubtedly prevented people going who otherwise would.
But, why doesn’t that theory apply to all other clubs in the land ? Surely then the attendance league table should mirror the catchment area of each club ?
Catchment area does of course play a factor but it’s one of many many reasons to clubs and their attendances.
Last edited:
tunstallhill
Striker
i imagine it does. you have to take factor in that the north east is predominantly football, as is merseyside and manchester, but a lot of the country has rugby and cricket to contend with. even still, london has 8.1 million people, with 11 proffesional teams. so thats less than 800k each. its already been shown that newcaslte has 1.3 million to chose from
the north west of england has 8 million people and 12 professional clubs, plus stacks of rugby towns
the attendances at newcastle are great, for what is on offer on the field, i don't think anyone could doubt that. but sunderland averaging 30k this season, given what has gone on in the last 5 years, the league we are in, and the small(ish) catchment area is a better achievement, in my opinion
you look at the north west, the combined average attendance in that area must be 300-400k
Logon or register to see this image
Last edited:
With London, we need to consider Home Counties which is where the vast majority of support down there comes from. If we take Durham and Northumbetland into account we need to also take in Essex, Surrey and Buckinghamshire.
Allow me to again point out I’ve never once criticised Sunderland’s gates. My only point on this is that any clubs attendances can not be solely down to catchment areas.
It does apply, where do you think it doesn't? - there are no exceptions to most attending fans of a club having it as their nearest team, the closest exception you get is the current truly big clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool but even there it holds up just to a less extreme effect, plus in London the tourist factor is not insignificant.
The reason you can't see it simply mirrored in attendance is many fold, but two huge factors - first historic and recent success - desire in the catchment area to attend - Attendances in the Premier League are bigger than those in the lower leagues, Newcastle have more fans than Newport and all the lesser examples in between. But stick Newport in the PL and they would never get 50,000- they lack the catchment. Sunderland are of course a beacon of exception with 28-40K in League One, but lets not kid ourselves it would be like that in 20 years if we were still there. Also of course this effect is increased by the quality of opposition turning up every second week, Liverpool are more of an attraction than Lincoln.
The second big factor is capacity, plenty of clubs can sell out in good times (like you used to do) and we experienced towards the end at RP that you don't need to completely sell out for people to perceive they can't get a ticket, for anything other than the biggest games, sales dry up around the 95% mark. But longer term a club regularly near capacity will stunt the growth of the attending fanbase, if you normally can't go, then you are not passing on the habit.
Attendance is much more complicated than catchment area, but if you don't have the catchment area you wont have the fanbase that it could achieve. Sunderland and Newcastle could fill 70K stadia based on catchment area if they were successful enough, but it cannot be denied that Newcastle's potential based on catchment area is at least double (UK gov) and possibly three times (City of Newcastle Council) that of Sunderland's. Incidentally the level of community commitment is higher in the Nort-East than anywhere I have come across, I see no lesser effect around Sunderland than Newcastle. Measures such as wearing your shirt to your wedding and on any venturing out of the North-East, and having no non-football patter at all definitely reflects something, but it isn't strength of support.
Binxy
Striker
Look Bisto breath their are five metropolitan boroughs in Tyne and Wear. (listed below)
Borough of Gateshead (Tyneside) Pop - 202k
Newcastle (Tyneside) Pop - 295k
North Tyneside - Pop - 204k
South Tyneside - Pop - 149k
Sunderland (Wearside) Pop - 277k
so
Tyneside - 85ok
Wearside - 277k
Nothing to do with catchment areas, aye reetio.
Give you Cabaye as PSG are a good side but as I said don’t be giving me Mickey Mouse leagues. Also Santon and Simpson as well.
Ben Arfa barely played man. It’s like saying Jimmy Montgomery won the European cup because he sat on bench for Forest.
Same with Remy he barely played for Chelsea.
Finishing 5th in France! Haway man.
That side wasn’t exactly blessed with superstars however let’s just say it was. Who brought in those players? Does Pardew not deserve credit for that or do we ignore him and give it all to super scout whilst excusing Rafa for poor buys as he ‘didn’t have enough funds’?
We technically agree with each other.
I’ve said that catchment area whilst obviously a factor, it’s too immeasurable to say it’s the only reason.
As you point out, as I did, success, capacity, tourism, willingness to attend and other factors come into play.
Success is much more key than catchment area. To use your Newport example. Completaly pie in the sky but let’s say they did a Man City and become a super power, they’d likewise get 50k plus as they’d pull in from all over Wales. Manchester United’s catchment area is global and not defined by county lines. We all know why, they’re successful.
So going back to the original post, where it was put to me that it was solely down to catchment area, I disagree as I think that it is only one of many contributing factors.
Roker Mackem
Striker
Think last census they just overtook Sunlun.
tunstallhill
Striker
you said, and i quote:
I don’t believe Sunderland to be the hot bed of football that it makes out. ...... The folk of Wearside aren’t as into watching live football as others.
absolute load of f***ing rubbish. we have fantastic attendances all things considered. as do newcastle. but newcastle isn't special in any way. they benefit from different circumstances. again, newcastle isnt special, never has been, never will be. its just a football club, like ours, and like thousands of others.
- Status
